Melissa

I don't want the IRS to come after us thinking we're misclassifying 'employees'. But we need some good subs and fast.

We're thinking of doing away with our 2 employees and going the all sub route. The employee thing is just not working out. No doubt we're to blame, but we just don't have the time to train and baby-sit, and we need money fast. We're sinking here. And have a new large expense approaching us in less than 1 month (we have to move).

Double-A

There is nothing wrong with advertising for subs.

Why would that interest the IRS?

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"My clients’ wishes are the center of my attention." -- David Guido, a contractor in Woodstock, N.Y.
New York Times, July 20, 2006

realpurty2

Mel, are you wanting individuals willing to work as subcontractor's or complete specialty trade crews?

If your just looking for a few individuals then an ad for Independent Contractors might work for you, but be prepared for alot of unskilled types.

If you break your projects down, and are looking for specialty trades such as full framing crews, drywallers, etc. then I'd suggest looking in the very same locations that you do your advertising, newspaper and worst case scenario..phone book.

You can either call to introduce yourself or mail out a subcontractor application directly to different companies of interest. If you have immediate work, tell them your accepting bids on XX project until XX date and ask if they would be interested. If your just lining up subs to use on future projects, let them know that your accepting applications for subcontractors for upcoming projects and ask if they would like one to be included. Never hurts to have backups either.

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Woman in a Man's World.

Mike Finley

Melissa when I was starting out it was suggested by somebody here to use one of the online lead services, sorry I can't remember which one would let you do it, but I would put a job in and list it as requesting sub-contractors, I would also say we have up coming projects that require this or that type of trade and to please contact us. I got a lot of responses, something like 15-20 in some trades.

The 2 plumbing and electrical subs that I use on a regular basis came from doing this.

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bathroom remodeling - Denver, Lakewood, Littleton, Arvada, Westminster, Centennial, Highlands Ranch, Lone Tree, Englewood Colorado.

Jon F

....These nice people have addressed your direct question, but I am concerned why you are "sinking", and what can be done to help you with that. Are you behind, and just need to get some jobs completed?? Under-bid?? Over-expensed?? I don't want to interrupt the initial objective of your thread, but I know I'd be happy to try and help brainstorm with you and figure out a way to patch things up and move forward if you want to start another post. jf

mdshunk

I see ads for subs in the local paper under the "help wanted" section from time to time. There's no doubt, when you read such an ad, that they are interested in subcontractors and not employees. I am privately concerned about the quality of the sub that is trawling the classifieds looking for work. Putting a request in with a lead service might be the better route, or asking the counter guys at the supply house or lumber yard for suggestions.

R&S Exteriors

Melissa have you tried asking the field reps at your local suppliers. They know most of the guys out their because even if the contractor does not buy from them their rep is out there trying to get their business.

They should know some pretty decent contractors who sub. Then when you contact the sub ask them for references and maybe even go look at some of their recent jobs.

Good luck. I hope everything turns out good for you.

If I were a GC I think I definately would rather deal with subs then employee's. The subs want your business, they want to impress you so that you will keep them busy, and most want to get the job done so they can collect their money and go on to the next job. Unfortunately many employees are not real concerned with their employers business and do not have the incentive to do top quality work in a timely manner.

Employees do not realize that you can not pay them as well (take home pay) as subs because you have to pay all the taxes and comp on them where you do not on subs.

Grumpy

The IRS doesn't care if you use subs, only if you treat employees as subs.

Yeah I advertise hiring subs. It's legal. You can use an online lead service. I was probably the one who suggested it to Mike. I KNow SM has a feature to find subcontractors.

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-Grumpy
Chicago Gutters Chicago Roofing

Melissa

I'll look into Service Magic. We did find one sub that way, actually two- a crane service and an appliance mover (for going up stairs).

Hubby and I go over and over it every day. And we've been working hard on refining everything, and we've come down to our employees skill level. The work is just not getting done, there are mistakes, etc. And yet we still have to pay them. Payday is getting painful. We're going to work on using them, give in one last shot and focus on training. But they are going to be held accountable each day and I'm going to start getting more involved. Maybe reduce their hours and use subs more until they are up to par.

realpurty2

We ran into this alot in the beginning. Mistakes are costly both from replacement and payroll. We tried having employees who were on a project from start to finish and ran into the exact same problems. Not everyone can do everything, and definately not everything well.

I know you have two guys you said, so our solution may not work for you but you can think and see if it could be modified to fit your needs.

What we did to prevent guys from making costly mistakes was to schedule them according to their skills and anything outside of the skill level, they don't touch. We rotate crews between the projects according to what is to be done for that day. For example.. we have four projects running right now. The same two guys who are doing drywall today will be doing demo tomorrow at a different site because neither can do the plumbing scheduled for tomorrow. Once the plumbing is done, the same two guys who did the drywall will be back to do the tile work. The two doing plumbing will revert back over to the office demo project. Friday I'll pull one electrician from the new construction to work on the bath project and replace him with a painter. It seems confusing but actually it isn't. The idea is to keep the flow of work going forward but not have someone there trying to do things they aren't able to do correctly. It's worked out much more cost effective than having to pay for mistakes by giving them task out of their skills.

Since your hubby does hands on work too, you might consider taking your employees down to part time and letting them do what they are able, then let hubby do what they can't. It will still get more work done than one can do alone and keep hubby with some free time for estimates and other task outside of the field.

Don't know if it will work for you but it was the only suggestion that came to mind.

__________________
Woman in a Man's World.

Melissa

Thanks Purty. I've thought of doing what you described. It's good to hear that it works.

I just created a "Skills and Interest Survey" for them to asses their skills based on a numerical scale of 1-10, and they just turned them in, so now I need to figure out what needs to be done and where to place them, and now I know what they need training on and what they like to do. This will help. I also averaged their scores, and it's interesting. I've got a 6.6 and a 4.7 to work with. Going to work on making them both 10's.

mdshunk

You must know that the guys that frequent internet forum sites (like this one) are constantly interested in learning new things. That is unusual. I have observed that most men, when they reach a certain age or point in their career, don't want to learn anything new. Don't be surprised if you run into this objection from them, whether vocalized or expressed in a more subdued manner. Might offer to split the price of some night vocational classes 50/50 with them, and see how that goes over.

Eric K

Have you considered doing maybe pc work or saying, (dont know if this is legal with employees) but paying them on a per job basis. Give them a list of what to do - how much you're willing to pay to have it done correctly and pay apon completion and inspection? Kind of like how a sub could get paid. Like I said tho, dont know if thats a legal thing to do with employees. Good Luck!

Melissa

Yeah, I've been meaning to refresh myself on what's legal and what's as far as using Independent Contractors.

Melissa

Robin, I'm thinking more and more that we need to implement something like what you described above. So tell me, do your guys end up working every day or do they end up having a few days off per week waiting until they are needed?