Ditching A Partnership

Toothpick

How many of you have had a partnership at one time?

The reason I ask is that I'm thinking about going solo again. My partner and I have been in business for nine years now and I am thinking it's time to move on. Long story short it's not that I have a bad partner it's just that we don't always see eye to eye on things, whether it's how to trim a window to where we want to go as a company. I'm not saying that I'm always right and He's always wrong as there are more than one path to the same spot sometimes. Anyways, it gets old when everything has to be debated, after all with no employees we pretty much spend most of our working days together . Bottom line is I am losing my enthusiasim for this partnership but I have great enthusiasim when I think about going on my own again and do what I want, how I want without having the debating process. I know it would be like starting over and I am a little nervous but yet excited about the idea, I want to make it fun again and enjoyable .

Any thoughts / experiences?

john elliott

No experiences, but my thoughts are that nine years is more than enough, and probably some kind of record in a situation where the two are working as closely as you guys. Have you asked him how he feels about it?

John

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Glasshousebltr

Who brings the beef and and who brings the cash?

That needs to be thought about as well.

Bob

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Bob

Brian

I'm not a fan of partnerships. It's just like marriage, except only one person winds up getting screwed.

Brian Phillips

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mdshunk

Of the most successful business in my local market, most of them are partnerships. Some husband-wife, some brothers, and some just friends. Out of these successful observed partnerships, I notice that the partners have defined and different roles. They have little or no skill overlap, but their skills are complimentary. I would think that would cut down on the debate on how to trim out a window, etc., as only one partner would possess that skill. I think that a good partnership, in my observations, is made by one partner that runs the business end and one partner that runs the field work. Naturally, they'll need to collaborate when big decisions need to be made such as capitol expenditures and personnel matters.

Doug M

I have been through 2 already.The first was with my best friend and was short lived.His commitment at the time was not the same as mine.We are still best friends and he is very successful in another field

The second one I had 2 other partners with skills that overlapped too much, with philosophical differences on how to deal with employees,crews and vender's.When you end up spending three hours a day playing peacemaker it is time to end it.2 years ago I went back on my own and have never been happier.1/10 the aggravation with 2x the pay.Never again

Doug M

Toothpick

Yes we have talked about it real lightly going our seperate ways, never in depth. I think part of the reason it is tough is because in the begining we didn't set systems in place properly such as putting on paper job roles. But even then it would be tough because for one my partner is very opinionated, two we work together all the time. So naturally you always see what the other does and your bound to rub each other after awile. I see myself as more laid back but even watching my partner in action sometimes drives me up a wall. I mean I consider myself pretty fussy and have been complimented throughout my career but he is anal. He just doesn't know when to quit sometimes and I just see $$$ floating out the window.

That's just one of the fundamental differences. Our job roles generally don't overlap as he manages the projects and I take care of the business end of things but we also both swing the hammer. I know each has to have their place and role but I believe you have to see and agree on fundamental things for that to happen.

Then there are other things I miss like not working with the customer and subs as much as I like too. I also would rather focus on smaller projects remodles, trim jobs (my first love). He would rather focus on large projects ($300k on up).

I just feel a little burned out as a partership. It's hard to get motivated on a thought or idea when you feel like everything has to be rammed through congress first. Man, I'm glad I'm not a politician

ARCS

Toothpick, is your partner my partner's twin brother? From how it sounds, I think we would be a good team if we were in the same area. I just gave my 90 day notice on my contract to leave and go back on my own this week, for almost the exact same reasons. I fortunately was able to get my partner to buy me out at a price fair to both of us, so having the cash to start back up was not much of a problem. I am excited to hit the pavement and start over knowing everything I learned from my past experience and to do it better this time. I hope the best for you, whatever you do decide, but some times partnerships do not fit companies as well as they did in the beginning a few years down the road. That is why it is important ti sit down on an annual basis and put a value to the company, so when something like this arises it is not put made in to a pissing match between the partners, and things can be worked out in a civil manner.

Keith

POOLMANinCT

sounds that if the philo-personal issues were not a factor, the potential for the established biz to sell more work is there, correct?

what caught my ear/eye is hat the two "foreman" are on the same job.
is a break up the only option? have you considered managing your own jobs?

if you are considering up start you will need, cap$, equip, vehicle and some hands & feet. i would explore getting another truck on the road, some hands & feet (help) and manage your own projects.

you stated your outfit can sell more than it can produce.. id ask why?
i suspect its because the two "heavy hitters" are on the same job.

what a waste of skilled labor and a long time earned rep

ray

Stone Mountain

I was partners with my brother for 10 years. We broke up when the recession hit in 1990. (In Canada it was closer to a depression that it was in the U.S.). It started because we both had cars with monthly payments of $1000; each!. I argued that we couldn't afford them. He said we'd weather the storm. We also were paying mortgages on 9 properties that we'd bought during the real estate boom, but had now lost 30% of their value.
Anyway, I sold my car and got a Honda. He was furious, but sold his Corvette anyway. That just led from one thing to another, and we parted a couple months later.
He went on to become very successful (he became a general contractor), but I struggled, finally going bankrupt 5 years later (it didn't help when one commercial customer stiffed me for $100,000)
We were never close, but he is my brother, and there are no hard feelings.

From mid 95 until 98, I worked on my own, and actually did OK, but I wanted to grow. I took a partner in March 98, and like you, I did sales and admin, while he ran the crews.
It was never a comfortable partnership, and unfirtunately, he wanted to stay small, while I wanted to grow. We did well, but he was not a business man, and we never saw eye to eye. Finally, in FEb 05, I walked out. I left everything on the table, including all the equipment, tools, paperwork, taking only my desk and computer. I was able to keep my logo (I'd owned it for 15 years), and the phone #, and I even left $30,000 in the company. I forced the company into banckruptcy 8 months later, but that didn't help me any.
He started up his own new company the day after I left, and kept most of the men, forcing me to find new men.
The day after I left, he said to me "I'm glad you're gone.. you held me back, and now you'll see what I can do!". He bad mouthed me all over the city, has played all sorts of pranks, and even forced me to get a court order to get custody of the two shop dogs (which he never wanted in the first place).
To this day, I have never said a bad word to anybody.
Ironic, really, because, 22 months later, my volume is 3 times his, I'm starting to franchise, I have made a completely new start, and have rebuilt my reputation. In fact, I am still running 7 crews, while he hasn't worked in a month. 4 of the crews that stayed with him have knocked on my door, and they are all with me now. I have picked up half a dozen of his commerical customers (they all say I treat them much better), and even some of his snow contracts. ( didn't go after them: they were just pissed at his treatement of them)

What goes around comes around, I say. I honestly feel that I have earned my good fortune by treating evryone well, and by running an ethical operation. He doesn't, and it's showing.

If you genuinely don't want to be partners any more, and you can stay friends, do it. If it's going to be acrimonous, or you aren't sure you can do it on your own, think very carfully. It is like a divorce, and can change your life!


Steve

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K2

I've had partners for specific projects and generally had a termination date , (ie. split the profit/ loss and go. )

Sometimes it is easier to make the jump out with a partner but you soon find out you can do it on your own. A preset termination date is good and you could always re-up if it is advantagious.

I like owner/employee partnerships with a chain of comand.

Toothpick

Thanks for the replys guys,

ARCS - It was your post I believe that was similar to mine and Inspired me to post this question (didn't want to hijack yours)

CPSpool - I'd like to stay small at first. I wouldn't need to invest in equipment as I think we would split assets. I'm not sure he would even stay in the game, he's talked about getting out before.

As for as help goes I have a network of people to work with that have skills in different areas - subs. Around here and I imagine elseware there are a lot of one man shows / contractors that network with others of the same. This is usually as cost effective as employees (skilled) without the hassles.

Stone - Wow, our situation is small potatoes compared to where you have been, glad it worked out in the end.

K2eoj - I too like the idea of "limited" partnerships, at least you can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

I'm just looking to get my freedom back and enjoy again. If and when I decide to grow I'm not afraid to delegate responsibilitys especially when you can have someone more skilled/knowlagable in areas that you are not. At the end of day you still are calling the shots.

Danahy

Toothpick - My partner and I have been working together for about 12 yrs now... It was horrible at first, couldn't agree on anything, so we split for a while, but found we couldn't find another partner or employee that could form the same dynamics. 7 yrs ago we decided to work together again, but not as partners. Together we each own two seperate companies, he has his tools, and I have mine. We each have our own customers.

How we do it. We share the same schedule. We alternate on filling in the schedule. On his jobs, I just show up with a brush, sorta sleep in, he does all the hard stuff, high stuff, paint, money etc... I just cruise control it... Then the next job its my turn to be in charge... It's actually kinda fun. We have a complete overlap of skills, which is what makes this work. Depending on whos job it is, depends on what you're going to be doing. It's kinda nice being able to forget about work only half as hard. If times ever get rough, we can easily split for a week or two, just to tackle our "too small for 2 guys jobs"...

... anyhow, we work together cause we want to, not because we have to like a regular partnership.

nadonailer

I had a best friend as a partner for about 7 years and we got along great - each of us filled in for the other's weak spots. (Although we were both poor at sales/marketing) We could have gone on forever except that our particular industry slumped and the business wouldn't support the both of us. I had more backup money so i bought him out. we are still good friends and have no regrets - I think it all depends on the person (alities) involved!
Go with your feelings though, just be up-front with your partner...

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Toothpick

Danahy

That's how I can envision things happining. I don't mind working with him, I'm just not sure I want to be partners anymore. Like I have said earlier it can drives me nuts watching him sometimes because what he does ultimatly affects me as well. Being separate he can operate as he pleases and I won't care or worry.

Ive often said to him in our earlier years "I like working with ya, but I don't like working with ya". He always gave me a confused look when I said that. In other words I like you as partner but when the nail bags are on leave me alone.

Pearce Services

If you are the Business end of this, and he likes to be in the field, Why not separate the equipment off to him, and the business name to you. You both become independent business owners.

You sell jobs, sub them to him. As you grow, find more guys, as he grows, and finds other work, he establishes his own business identity.