Did My First Design Proposal Today.

wackman

I've read about some of the guys on here doing a design contract and I thought it was a brilliant idea, so I put together a design contract and explained to my next customer that we want to do a two part contract. The first part is the design contract which includes:

Consultation
Design
drafting
engineering
plans
permits

It's a pretty set number for many of our jobs so I doubt I'll need to change the price much from job to job (kitchen/bath 1 price, additions different price)

The client seemed confused at first and asked why no one else wants to charge money for those things and I explained that they are charging it, that they're just putting it all in one contract amount. That can be inaccurate because until the engineering is done and permits are in hand no one can be sure of what the city will require (seems to change from job to job depending on who issues me the permit!?) and therefor can't possibly give them an accurate price or come close to bidding apples to apples (no plans, engineering reports, or permits?)

They seemed to understand and I think they liked the idea. They're going out of town for a week and will think about it, so I'll update how this works out.

GregS

Nice. That way if they decide it's too much you still get them to pay for the design.

wackman

I'm just tired of getting asked "how much to add a bath?" or "how much to do an addition?" and when I ask "do you have some plans I can look at?" I hear "no, I thought that was what you were for".

So we usually do all the design, engineering and permits with it all figured into the single contract.

Well..

We just finished a dormer addition where the city f--ked me good. I was referred to this couple and knew before I left their house from the very first meeting that I had the job regardless of price, so I gave them my price even though they had no plans, engineering, permits...nothing yet. My price included doing all those things and as long as we stuck to the scope originally speced out then the price probably wouldn't change.

I had a real good idea what we'd be doing, I've done enough and it's not rocket science. So we get the design down, my arch/designer drafts it up and details it to the level of my new construction homes, my engineer does his thing (he used to be the head of the engineering department at the city where they issue permits, so he knows his sh-t) and he agrees with everything I had planned on...status quo.

Then when we submit for the permits some pimply faced kid in the structural review department, who looks about 18, must have just finished school and got hired at the city looks at the plans and starts talkin all sorts of giberish. He hands me a list of things he wants added and makes all his notes in the computer. I'm irritated cause he's asking for things that don't make sense. I'm no engineer but I've done this enough to know what's normal and what this kid was asking for wasn't.

I keep my mouth shut (very political down there) and go back to my engineer who's pissed because the kids stupid. We have a meeting, all of us, plus the new engineering head and they back off on lots of the stuff (cause it's unnecessary) but not all. We compromise because I don't want to make enemies down there. My engineer thinks it's something personal against him, I don't know...

So I had to add stuff to my proposal and I looked bad because it looked like I didn't know what I was doing, or my engineer didn't.

I split the cost with the client.

Moral of the story is now I don't want to give a price till the city has had it's way with the plans and engineering. Plus it's a cleaner way to do things for other reasons altogether. I just feel it's a little slower and a harder sell, any of you guys do it this way? Any good tips?

Wack

Tmrrptr

Excellent idea to split your proposal into engineering/design/consultation work and actual fabrication.

Get what you are worth!
r

silvertree

I'm 2 for 2 getting paid for design and bidwork. There is no going back now. I realize asking for the money to bid on 2 jobs and getting both is not gonna happen all the time, but it's the future for me.

ruskent

It amazes me eole can give estimates with out doing any of those things.
I recently gave someone a price of 8k the design part of a job that would be around 10k. For 10k we would : Have a engineer do a topo survey, Full landscape and planting plan by LA, full property grading plan (As required by town), engineered plans for retaining wall, and engineered plans for the deck.

People looked at me like i was crazy and i have yet to hear back from them.

wackman

Even though people seem to expect us to do those things I'm going to put out some advertising really stating it. I've only had a few customers who actually thought to hire an engineer or architect before getting to me. I think they don't realize that their little dormer addition or wall removal requires one.

woodmagman

wack...my first questions is did the engineer stamp the drawings? If yes, then you should have no problem laying a betting on the pimple face...the permiting process is to insure that the job is built to engineered or standard design specifications. If an engineer says it is o.k. and his stamp is on it, then it is o.k. sounds like the building department needs a wood chipper

wackman

Yeah, he stamped the whole thing. Did all the laterals, verticals, details, sections, beams, posts, spot footings, etc..

Tell me about it...my engineer USED to be all their bosses! If he doesn't know what is required then who does?

I told them, "since you want to completely re-engineer the whole project, which I'm paying for in my permit fee and you don't seem to trust his license why don't I stop paying for an engineer and just bring you the drawings and let you tell me what to do?" Seems like a wasted step to me.

wackman

Update:

So I got a call today from this client and they said they met with 3 other guys, after me, and were so impressed with my design and presentation that they want to go with us.

I met with them already, took all my measurements, snapped some pics for the drafter, signed the design contract and took a half down deposit for the design proposal.

First try and it's looking like a home run.

Wack

Cole

Good for you!

I have been doing the design agreement for a year now and I don't remember how it was, when I didn't do it, nor do I want too.

To me it weeds out a lot of price-shopping HO's and that saves me valuable time.

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