Customer Won't Pay??

alvector

I have done work for this customer since Feb of 08. A lot of small jobs (trim, replace doors, etc) and some big (kitchen remodel, bath remodel, 14x16 deck with stairs). They asked me if I would finish the entry to their basement apartment, built in place of a bulkhead door. Replace door, and tape the existing sheetrock, ex jams and trim. I charged them very little to do this because they has given me a lot of work in the past 6 months.
When I gave them an invoice, they told me that they thought that they had already paid for the entry. They normaly pay me at the end of the day, but because of the taping, it was going to take a couple hours over the next three days, so i figured it would be easier to charge when I was done. I explained to them what I had charged them for and what I haven't, and finally they agreed that they owed it.
Now here is where I stand. A customer that agrees that they owe, but don't pay.
The evilness in me wants to go to the local hardware store where they have a local charge account, that they added me to, and buy myself something that is equal to the value of their bill. I know this is wrong, but still have the urge to do it, and tell them I will return it if they pay me.

I have been in business to know that I am s#@$ out of luck.
Maybe some of the senior members can explain the course of action that I, or others could, should follow in this position.
I hate to do nothing, just out of pure ethics (some one shouldn't get something for free at the expense of others), but what is my next step?
How long do I have to wait till small claims court?

Chris Johnson

Your not **** out of luck

DO NOT buy anything on their charge account, two wrongs in this case don't make a right.

If they truly are not going to pay, the amount sounds small, sue in small claims court.

I don't know if your licensed or not, if you are, you should know better how to run a business, you can place a lien, albeit a little more difficult, it can be done.

If you're not licensed, call the building department, without you even telling us, there was no permit, you sound like a no permit kinda guy. Then call the assessors office and inform them about the home improvements adding value. Place an ad in the local paper notifying them that final payment is due and you need to be paid. You can make someones life miserable.

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Chris

GregS

So you said they agreed to pay, but you didn't say why they aren't paying. Why won't they pay?

What was in your contract regarding details of past due accounts?

alvector

to start, I am licenced. did pull permits for the applicable jobs, and had past contracts with this customer for time and materials. This was an obviously small job, and took less than 8 hours. In mass, you don't legally need a contract for work less than 600. These points are less important than the issue.
The questions are
1. How long do you need to wait before taking action on a delinquent account. (Obviously, I am small, and need the money more than other established companys)
2. Is small claims the first step or is a lien? (A lien sounds extreme, but I do know that they are planning to sell the house in the near future, and bugging that up for them would be fun)
3. Feel free to share your nightmares, maybe I'll feel better

JPC2

I love Chris' idea of putting an ad in the paper! Can you imagine the embarrassment when they saw it? There's a local grocery store here that posts peoples names above a saying like "John Smith pay your bad check".

Aframe

Chasing less than $600( if I read it correctly) will cost you more than its worth.

You could put a lien on, but might end up only $100 ahead when your done, or actually loose $ if you figure time and fees to file.

Do not to give up on it though. Did they tell you why the won't pay? Just keep sending a bill.

alvector

They didn't say that they wouldn't pay, but haven't. The last time that we spoke, they said that they would pay, but day after day, no check.
I do realize that chasing the money is pointless financially, and a part of me wants to just let it go, but the other feels that someone shouldn't do that. They seem to be burning a bridge because they are over it. I do feel better about it though after having the chance to vent.

Aframe

Although we all want the money when we're done, how long has you been waiting for this payment? weeks/months?

Send them a monthly statement, if you had interest clauses on your previous contracts, start tacking it on (not sure if legal), but may get them to realize that the longer they wait the more it will cost.

Had to go the lien route before, got paid so HO could sell. Gets to the point where you just want it to end.

A

Grumpyplumber

If he had to go to court, he could add punitive, admin & other charges.

I know a fella the took out a lien on a developer here in MA and wound up with twice his original bill in the end.

KES

Keep billing them. You may want to start to bill them every 2 weeks for a couple of months or so. I did this in the past when I did a small job for a local organization. I finished the job and gave them the invoice and was told to expect the check in 5 days. I did not get the check. I billed again every month for 4 months, then started to mail them a invoice every 2 weeks. Then I heard from another contractor to give up he was not getting paid either. So I wrote it off. Guess what I got last week. Yep my check! I almost fainted. So 7 months and 11 or so invoices I got paid.

Another thing they may be having money problems. You may want to offer them to pay half this month and the rest next month. Just a last minute thought. The big guys on here may say that is a "no no" , but in the end you would get your money.

Peter

wellbuilthome

I think for 600 bucks you should back off and wate .I think they will come up with the $$$$ . Things are bad now and people are tight .It will come , give them some time ,keep asking for the money . start stoping buy at dinner time , they will get sick of feeding you & pay up.

Aiken Colon

I would have to agree with Wellbuilt. Negativity breeds negativity. Keep on with work and don't show these people one bit of suffering from this. Stay positive and show them you're not mad... their conscience(s) will prevail and you'll probably find a check in the mail when you least expect it.

You've gotten by without their money and you wouldn't lose it all if they NEVER paid. I agree that what they're doing is wrong, but by showing your superb business practices, you may teach them a thing or two about how to treat people in business and personal relationships.

Nothing feels better than running into them in the grocery aisle when they can't even look you in the eye.

...also if you end up on your death bed and still not paid, you can put $1000 or so in your will to have some great nephew or someone put flaming bags of dog s**t on their kids or grandkids doorstep and go out feeling great about the whole situation.

Chris

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AtlanticWBConst

Is this customer, by any chance located in Tyngsboro, MA? Seriously sounds like some people I know...

Do you mean you have your CS license or do you have an H.I.C. # ?

Did you, or the Home Owner pull the permits?

FWIW: The requirement amount is actually not $600.00, it is $1000.00.
Side point: I am sorry, but, I have to ask this question: (surpised) You have a "license", and you didn't know that?

Link: http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=eopsterm...hic&csid=Eeops

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- Build Well -

DavidC

How long have you been waiting? I may have missed it, but didn't see it posted.

I'd give them at least 30 days and then send them a new invoice with the highest legal interest or service charge added on. That normally produces a check for us, nobody ever pays the service charge though.

Good Luck
Dave

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GregS

And how many times have you spoken to them? When was the last time? If it was over 3 weeks ago, then go call them now!

"Hi, remember me? I'm going to stop in and pick up the cheque from you. Thanks."

mark the coach

If your customer has agreed that they owe for the item and will not pay have you asked them if they are unhappy with some of your work?
Maybe they are having some issues that they are not sharing with you. If they gave you numerous jobs they obviously had and maybe still have trust in you. Try calling them and say you are confused where you went wrong and and that you are beside yourself. This is an approach where you are showing them that you are not ok and hopefully they will want to rescue you. If they have trusted you to do all this work maybe if you portray to them that you are hurt they will want to help you.
You are right that if you go to small claims or file a lien it will probably not be worth the effort.
As far as doing work outside of the contract may I suggest that you institute a change order policy that you will only do work that has been documented, priced, approved and paid for before you do it. Unless it is in writing you are are not obligated to do it or get paid for it.

mark the coach

Double-A

You missed the first step in all of this. Form a good relationship from the beginning and avoid having to play the sympathy card all together.

The OP's story has a 'walk all over me' sign on his back from the start to end. If you don't set yourself up as a professional and demand to be respected from the start, humbling yourself and asking for mercy on the back end might just breed contempt and invite even more mis-treatment.

Change orders are nice, but if there is not contract to begin with, what are you going to change?

My advice? Sit down with them and talk it out, but first ask for a list of concerns they have with your work and their payments to date. When you sit down with them, address them all, one by one, to their satisfaction. Stop working on their projects until this can be settled. Explain that unless you all settle this, you can't continue to work for them and not have a clear agreement as to what monies are outstanding and which jobs are paid in full, and what monies paid to date might apply to any outstanding work. An understanding and an agreement must be reached or you'll just have to pull off.

Now, to the OP. Shame on you. How are you going to let people walk all over your family like this? Come on, man. Get your ducks together and quit treating your clients like they are your college dorm mates. Respect them and get all business-like on them. Clean up the game or you're going to be sidelined wondering how in the hell you've worked so hard and so long and have nothing but bills and tools to show for it. Have some self-respect. Don't work for clowns.

Get legal, get some contracts, learn about lien laws in your area and stop doing work that someone thinks was paid for when you replaced the whateveritwas. If you don't get professional with your business, just how do you expect to be paid like one?

This ass chewing was brought to you by years of experience and loads of heartache, available where ever clowns want something for nothing and your local big box store parking lot.

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"My clients’ wishes are the center of my attention." -- David Guido, a contractor in Woodstock, N.Y.
New York Times, July 20, 2006

ProWallGuy

What's up with the HTML code???
POST OF THE DAY!!!

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rbsremodeling

Forget Obama and Mc Cain. I nominate Snoopy for President.


Excellent Post. The truth is a hard pill to swallow for all of us

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Brock

I would would just go ahead and get the XRP Dewalt pack. It is usually around 499.00 on average. When they find out tell them you will trade it for your $600.00. BTW, this is 100% leagal. Shame on them though for putting you on as a legal signer.