Customer Satisfaction

ElliottDoor

Scenario:

Customer contacts you and you discuss what she/he wants. You come to an agreement and hash out the details and down payment. Customer pays the down payment and you begin work. Customer doesn't like your work and refuses to pay the remaining balance.. what do you do?

What type of disclaimer or what have you do you guys use to combat situations like this? It has happened to me once. She didn't like my work and not only did she not pay me the remaining balance, she asked for the money back from the down payment. I paid her back because she was a "friend" of the family and I didnt want any anamosity in the furure. Turns out the cabinet is still in her house, free of charge! Anyways I learned not to do work for family friends without a contract but even if I had one what would/should it say regarding satisfaction and getting paid?

PressurePros

You are a brave soul to post this but perhaps the true question should come from inside yourself.

From an objective standpoint, you get paid for work you perform. I've recently added a T&M clause in my contract. We had a lady try to not pay her remaining balance because there were drips of oil in her driveway about a fooot and a half from where her asphalt drive met the street. Her 2700 square foot deck was out back. She still owed $3800 on this very large resto job. There was no way she was entitled to keeping that because everything wasn't 100% perfect in her eyes. At the same time if my guys were 3 hours into the job before she decided she wanted them out of there, I couldn't bill her for half.

Maybe in your contracts/proposals you can list a payment structure with an amount due at the end of each phase and exactly waht work will be performed at that stage. I have had several contractor friends have problems with homeowners not understanding how a second payment is already due when it looks like work has just begun. Take the time to spell things ut in the begining.. less headache later

__________________
Ken Fenner
Pressure Washing PA
Roof Cleaning Services PA

MattCoops

I don't think you can really put a clause stating: pay us even if you are unhappy with the work.

If they don't pay you, take them to court, taken you have a signed legal agreement to do a said project at a said time for a said amount.

__________________
Matt with Cupan Custom Tile & Paint of Lowell, Massachusetts
Design and installation of ceramic tile and natural stone for floor, wall, and countertops
(978) 601-8774 | cupantile@gmail.com | view tile pictures and more

ElliottDoor

What do you mean? I don't do poor work. Im not the best by no means. I'm just being honest considering this site is a place to learn.. so i don't care as long as i learn

On this job I did things like I always do. I get a description verbally from the HO. Take some measurement and head to my computer where I use Sketchup to draw up a picture as per specs that I can take back to the HO and ask if this is what he/she had in mind. If its not, I change it.. repeat process untill he/she agrees thats what they had in mind.
I build it exactly as it shows because I take the cut list straight from the model drawing. The only difference would be type of material, joinery and functionality (drawers etc) which i discuss with the client. I really think she was just retarded.
I have not been open to the public long enough to look into contracts but i think its about time i did.

Giovanni

Yes to both of your questions. Definitely have a written contract spelling out exactly what you will and won't be doing for exactly how much money and when that money will be due. Put language in your contract that makes the drawing part of the contract document and have them approve and sign the drawing. Make sure you have all your state's lien law disclosures included so that if the customer doesn't pay you can file and 'perfect' a lien against their property.

Then take your rough draft of a contract to a CONSTRUCTION attorney in your area who represents Contractors for review. Once your contract flies with your attorney for the type of work you do in the area where you will be working make sure that your customers sign both the drawings and the contract before you start the work. Or order any materials.

One tip an old timer taught me years ago was to structure the payments to be due at the beginning of a phase of work rather than at the end. For example: "The next payment is due when the drywall is delivered" as opposed to "at the completion of framing". There's no arguing when the drywall shows up but people could argue about when framing is complete as long as there is a shiner or one block missing somewhere.

ElliottDoor

Perfect! Thanks for the advice. I wouldnt have known to take the contract to a construction attorney after i write it up. Liening a property seems kind of harsh for 1-2k jobs doesnt it? Are there any other "if you dont, i will" things besides liening? I guess it could be anything you want as long as the attorney approves it eh?

Forry

I wanna know what she didn't like... you said she was just retarded, possible, but more likely, some kind of misunderstanding. I think it's part of your job to figure out what the problem was, for future education. Just my thoughts.

Grumpy

Fix what's wrong or prove what you did is correct. I often fix minor issues that customers think might be dont wrong or a mistake or what ever because if a couple hours of time gets me paid and keeps them happy and loyal... DO IT. However if they are dead wrong, will prove it with copies of building code, manufacturers specs and trade orginization publication.

Had one guy mad that we face nailed his Hardie siding repair, we had to replace a few panels. True blind nailing is preferred, and how we install fibercement on a fresh job but this was a repair. Anyways when I showed him that hardie allowed it, even had a spec for it he paid up immediatelty.

I just hired a new salesman who told me there was a $120,000 tile roof project the company did a couple years ago. The customer refused to pay saying they did something wrong, the salesman didn't have all the details but chances are they did based on what I know of the company. Anyways 2 years later and $50,000 in lawyer fees the company won and got a judgement but still never got paid by the customer. It'll take more legal fees to collect.... and I know they don't have any "legal fees" clause in their contract.

ElliottDoor

I see what you mean, yeah probably best to fix small problems if it doesnt require a lot of time.

As far as the reason this woman didn't like my work. I came up with a few but all in all you never really know what someone's thinking.

If she would have communicated her problems to me I could have either explained my reasons and/or fixed the problem but she was insistant on getting her full refund back, no exceptions.

Im learning as i go along with this. Been a carpenter for 17 years and in business about a year so im trying to learn this whole customer satisfaction thing.

Grumpy

My policy is if fixing it will require as much effort as fighting it... Just fix it, weather it's a real problem or not. It's better for your reputation and the end result ENSURES payment.

If someone calls me asking for a refund I would inquire why. She gave no specific reasons? Just said she didn't like it and wanted her money back? I'd have at least poked and prodded before giving any money back. INfact I woudln't give any money back until I knew what I was buying.

Double-A

What we might consider a great work of art by an old master might well have been a 'gimme' when it was created. Why? Because the 'old master' didn't give their client what they asked for.

I'm not saying you didn't listen, perhaps you did and perhaps you didn't, but one thing is clear, what she got wasn't what she was expecting.

My best advice for this situation is, don't work for folks that make you feel uneasy for any reason. If you don't feel like you're on the same wave length as your client, walk away. Otherwise, you might wind up working for free, again.

As for returning money, listen to Grumpy. Never buy back what you are selling unless you know why you are doing so.

I don't care if your carpentry work is comparable to a Frederic Remington masterpiece, even an artist must operate a viable business or find himself working on napkins with ketchup packets.

__________________
"My clients’ wishes are the center of my attention." -- David Guido, a contractor in Woodstock, N.Y.
New York Times, July 20, 2006

Grumpy

Set your expectations up front. I often times have people describing the way they want something to look in their mind's eye and I have no clue what they are showing me with all their wiggling and hand waving drawing imaginary 3d surfaces in thin air. "Do you have a picture?" is always my response. "My guys are capable, and if it can be done we can do it. But I don't want to drive cross country without a road map."

It's like in my proposals I spend time making sure everything is miticulously (sp?) spelled out. What we are going to do, what materials we are going to use, and how we are going to do it. This is even more so true for repairs and odd jobs. Very many times people say they have never seen a proposal so detailed. The honest truth is that it is that way to protect them and myself. I will do everything on the propsoal, nothing more or less. Yes, it takes me more time upfront and yes it's wasted time if I am not hired, but it does prevent alot of the "I thought you were going to do this..." that can sometimes happen during or after a job.

If I am expecting "A" as an end result and they are expecting "B". We will have a problem. I tell my customers: "Never assume. If you are assuming soemthing, chances are likley I am assuming somerhing else, so if you have questions ask for clarification and spelled out in the propsoal if necessary." I usually use this when they are tryign to compare us to someone's very basic cheesy proposal which doesn't give much detail. The customer might say "well I think they are doing the same thing..." to which I follow up "Never assume, I think they are more than likley not going to be doing the same thing. After all if they were going to go the extra mile for you, wouldn't they be promoting that instead of hiding it?"

Bottom line is that my customers know up front what they are buying and that just eliminates a ton of problems! but it starts with documentation.

ElliottDoor

Right, untill you have a steady clientel from referals its hard to satisfy the client through words. I am basing my future endevours on this paticular job. Ive ran it through my head so many times to try to learn from it. I beleive in following your gut and I didnt do that here. She did mention she didnt like it because it had more drawers in it than she wanted my rebutal was that it had the same amount of drawers as the picture. that was about the only reason she gave me but her tone of voice was adamant (sp) so I was like wtf from that point.

I think there were other reasons she decided not to mention but i would be grabbing for straws to try to figure it out. I did however write her a letter with her returned check telling her what I thought about her decision so she didnt get a refund for free . It was worded well but did have some sarcastic dumps on her character.

All in all i should have followed my instinct. She was a weird one, she didnt care too much and didnt appear to be very specific so I drew up a picture, she said ok and I went with it. The cabinet WAS 1/2" too deep and impeeded on the light switch but i said I could fix that no problem by moving the light switch. Now that I think of it she did mention this on the phone followed up by the "too many drawers" argument followed up by "refund me all my money" so as you can see, i tried.
She didnt give me enough information to draw anything from. So it could just be that she didnt like my smile.. who knows.

Next time though i will have a contract and some signatures so I have something to fight with. Are there any links to some contracts i can browse to get ideas from? I dont want something with 5 pages.. simple and to the point.

Thanks

PressurePros

I apologize if I implied that it was the quality of your work. I was thinking more along the lines of what Grumpy wrote. Setting expectations with the customer.

__________________
Ken Fenner
Pressure Washing PA
Roof Cleaning Services PA

Mike Finley

You built here some sort of cabinet right? Where is the cabinet? Please tell me you removed it when you gave her the money back and at least deducted the materials from what you returned to her.

Grumpy

Hey that's a valid point...

ElliottDoor

This would be the part where I get slammed by my fellow tradesmen. No I didnt get the cabinet from her and I returned ALL of her money. Why? 2 reasons.. I would spend even more time driving there to remove the cabinet at which I wouldnt be able to sell it to anyone else being that its custom. I also dont have the room to store it anywhere so i would just throw it away..because she was a "friend" of a family members friend in a small town where everyone knows everyone so if the subject of this ever came up at least I hold some good standing with my name and reputation. So she can say she didnt like this or that BUT he refunded my money. Another thing is that if she did in fact reek bad information about me in this small town if someone knew the story and saw the cabinet in her bathroom they can put 2 and 2 together and figure.. she screwed me. Its all on her. I lost money yeah but Ill never do it again.

Would I ever refund like this again? Hell no! If someone heard about me through her and expected a full satisfaction gurantee or your money back they must not have read my contract that I will have them sign, family members friend or not.

So any good links or possible pdf files on some contracts?

Mike Finley

I won't argue with what you decided upon, nobody can say good or bad, it's up to you to ultimately live with what you do every day.

Personally, I'm kind of a bastard when it comes to jackasses trying to be dicks so I would definitly have pulled that cabinet out. Probably tied it to the bumper of the truck and dragged it down her driveway and down the street.

Maybe even just set it up in the street in front of her house and then drive your truck through it at about 50 mph. Make a nice Youtube video.

walleyed

An old man, a boy & a donkey were going to town.

The boy rode on the donkey & the old man walked.
As they went along they passed some people
who remarked it was a shame the old man
was walking and the boy was riding.
The man and boy thought maybe the critics were right,
so they changed positions.

Then, later, they passed some people who remarked,
'What a shame, he makes that little boy walk.'
So they then decided they'd both walk!

Soon they passed some more people who thought
they were stupid to walk when they had a
decent donkey to ride.
So, they both rode the donkey.

Now they passed some people
who shamed them by saying how awful to
put such a load on a poor donkey.
The boy and man figured they were probably right,
so they decide to carry the donkey.

As they crossed the bridge,
they lost their grip on the animal
and he fell into the river and drowned.

The moral of the story?


If you try to please everyone, you might as well...
Kiss your ass goodbye!

PressurePros

I hear ya, Mike. I would probably have been more subtle. I would have removed it, carved "TRASH" into every exposed face and left it on her curb for the trashmen.

__________________
Ken Fenner
Pressure Washing PA
Roof Cleaning Services PA