Copus And Business Size

George Z · 10-09-2007, 07:21 PM

I don't see the problem with any of the two opinions on this.

I agree with Grumpy,
the way to free time, time with your family or time for anything,
is making the business run without you.
I have a contractor friend here in Toronto,
he has been in the business for 20 years.
He had to shut down everything even his Pay per click,
just to go on his Honeymoon. I think that's pathetic!

As far as the frustrations and the ups and downs experienced,
there can't be any Peaks without the Valeys.

Maybe things are perfect in Copusland, but reality is that
owner operator businesses have endless problems as well,
repeating themselves day after day, after day, after day...

And Copus,
I am happy things are working so great for you.

Grumpy · 10-09-2007, 08:18 PM

Copus, I am not lost. I know exactly where I am going and exactly how I am going to get there. I have goals, and plans and I execute those plans.

Spinning wheels isn't the same as trying creative management techniques. Trying new things is sometimes an asset and sometimes a liability. Sitting still is stagnation and a sure way to go out of business. We must continually organize and re-organize our businesses to the changing dynamic of our world. It might seem nuts to you that I am trying something new, and it may end up being nuts, but it also may end up being a revolution that others adopt into their business strategies.

I think you are the lost cause in this case. Refusal to open your eyes to what is and what can be. Just because you at some point had the same golas as I, but decided you couldn't pull it off doesn't mean others can't pull it off, because others can, have and currently are pulling it off. You own multiple businesses and you insist on talking about the 2nd when I am talking about the first. You may as well be speaking chinese.

I can not vary from straight ahead, I can not take the well tuned vehicle out of 5th gear until I heave reached my destination. I MUST be full steam ahead. When I reach my destination, at that time, I can cruise around and will be free to try other things. Spreading myself thin is how I will fail at all my endeavours. Focusing on one at a time, whole heartedly, is how I will suceed.

copusbuilder · 10-09-2007, 08:29 PM

Well George, seeing you are one of the "King of sales guys" I will take your comments as tongue in cheek.

I never shut my business down to take a vacation

I don't seem to have the day to day problems you mention

Your right, Life is damned good in Copus land because Copus made it that way.
I did it through diversification.

The problem you guys have is that you equate downsizing and re-organizing with failure.
You fail to see to the side. You can only look in one direction and that is straight ahead.

copusbuilder · 10-09-2007, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grumpy

Copus, I am not lost. I know exactly where I am going and exactly how I am going to get there. I have goals, and plans and I execute those plans.

Spinning wheels isn't the same as trying creative management techniques. Trying new things is sometimes an asset and sometimes a liability. Sitting still is stagnation and a sure way to go out of business. We must continually organize and re-organize our businesses to the changing dynamic of our world. It might seem nuts to you that I am trying something new, and it may end up being nuts, but it also may end up being a revolution that others adopt into their business strategies.

I think you are the lost cause in this case. Refusal to open your eyes to what is and what can be. Just because you at some point had the same golas as I, but decided you couldn't pull it off doesn't mean others can't pull it off, because others can, have and currently are pulling it off. You own multiple businesses and you insist on talking about the 2nd when I am talking about the first. You may as well be speaking chinese.

I can not vary from straight ahead, I can not take the well tuned vehicle out of 5th gear until I heave reached my destination. I MUST be full steam ahead. When I reach my destination, at that time, I can cruise around and will be free to try other things. Spreading myself thin is how I will fail at all my endeavours. Focusing on one at a time, whole heartedly, is how I will suceed.

Hmmm, Very interesting! Ever hear of the saying "Can't see the forest for the trees?"

Even in the stock market people diversify, don't put all their eggs in one basket?
I think you are conufusing success and ego?

I think you are the lost cause in this case. Refusal to open your eyes to what is and what can be. Just because you at some point had the same golas as I, but decided you couldn't pull it off doesn't mean others can't pull it off, because others can, have and currently are pulling it off.

Now this is where I knew you would end up. I offer alternative plans to running a business and I am somehow "a failure" or one that couldn't do it.
Once again you have shown how anyone that does not embraqce your phylosophy is nothing more than a looser!

It is a mind set that is hard for your type to change. It was taught to you and you cannot let go for fear of treading into the unknown.

What a pathetic joke

Grumpy · 10-09-2007, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copusbuilder

for fear of treading into the unknown

Treading into the unkown is all I do. I don't fear it and I do diversify, but in minor ways. Ways which currently aren't my focus, but could be if ever needed.

I fear failure and not much more. Don't pretend to know me because you are comparing yourself and your successes and failures to my situations and beliefs. My perception of everything you preach in this thread is that "it can't be done and nobody should try. Stall small, spread yourself thin. Try lots of things." As I have said just because you couldn't do it doesn't mean it can't be done with some effort and desire.

While diversification isn't bad, spreading yourself thin is. Letting go of plan A to jump onto plan B means you will probably fail at A & B. Jumping onto Plan B, after A is stable is a good idea.

Maybe it is ego. I love laughing in the face of guys, like you, who say it can't be done.. and then I do it. However the underlying goal is to be financially stable. perhaps not "wealthy" but well off is good enough. Having the things I want and not worrying how thery are going to be paid for, and having the time to enjoy the things I have with the people I care for.

I can not accomplish this goal of financial stability unless I have at least one, preferrably more, self sustained businesses generating wealth for myself and my family regardless if I am working or not.

**Ed the Roofer** · 10-09-2007, 08:53 PM

So, as many insurance adjusters have told me when debating the merits of an insureable claim loss:

"I Guess We Agree To Disagree!"

Even with the philosophies being aimed in different directions, I think that we can all agree that no matter what business philosophy is discussed, we can all learn from it.

To quote James Cagny, (some old dude actor), from a scene in which he was being interrogated and he responds to the remark:

Interrogator:
"Lies! You are telling us nothing but lies!"

James Cagny:
"Don't my lies tell you just as much as my truths!"

Ed

Grumpy · 10-09-2007, 08:56 PM

Agreeing to disagree isn't good enough when the truth is right there in front of us all but is being corrupted, I feel a duty to defend the truth... All be it maybe a trush as I see it and perhaps only I see it but none the less... It is my duty.

copusbuilder · 10-09-2007, 09:37 PM

Alas,,,he admits to being "super roofer".
Truth, Justice and the Grumpy way

I can lay a shingle better than anyother

....No wait,,,,I can get others to lay a shingle better than anyother. I will shingle the world...Puleeze

The world wouldn't be the same without you Grumpy

copusbuilder · 10-09-2007, 09:40 PM

Ed, you have some class

Guess this is a case of....If someone doesn't like it don't click on it cause we haven't gotten very far

Despite the differences I would love to sit down and drink a beer with Grumpy cause I could talk him into buying

Grumpy · 10-10-2007, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copusbuilder

Alas,,,he admits to being "super roofer".
Truth, Justice and the Grumpy way

I can lay a shingle better than anyother

....No wait,,,,I can get others to lay a shingle better than anyother. I will shingle the world...Puleeze

The world wouldn't be the same without you Grumpy

Copus I don't know what world you live in.

If you can find any instance where I personally ever claimed that I personally could roof any better than anyone I will eat my words and publicly apoligize. No, you will find time after time where I have said that If I were my employee I would fire me. You will find time after time where I have said that something gets lost between my mind which knows what to do and my hands which rush and are clumsy. No Copus I have never claimed to be better or faster than anyone technically.

You will also find time after time where I have said you have to cater to your strengths and hire people to balance out your weaknesses. You will find many instances where I have said that I can get more done in one day with the help of others than doing it alone.

Now you are just making things up to help your case. Please prove me wrong.

I think you don't understand that we agree on alot. Diversification being one. However where we differ is that essentially you are using your construction business to boost your other businesses. I think this is wrong. Yes, you should use it, however you shouldn't abandon it. Once it's built it should be nurtured and sustained rather than downsized and then disolved as you have said you have done and plan to do. To me that is just highly ridiculous... Build something up, then tear it down to a lesser level, then plan to do nothing with it other than discard it when you are done with it.

That's just math I can't follow. Too much time effort and PASSION have gone into what I have built so far and I'm not even close to being done... for me to just discard it would be almost like discarding a piece of myself.

copusbuilder · 10-10-2007, 09:26 PM

Wow Grumpy, you actually came down a notch

I really don't think there is much to be gained from continuing so I will politely remove myself. We do not see eye to eye and we can both run each other to the ground taking our moral high ground

Thanks for the comments and I am sure we will batter each other again.....

dougchips · 10-10-2007, 09:31 PM

Um, did grumpy win?

copusbuilder · 10-10-2007, 09:50 PM

He's as hard headed as I am

I have a lot of other things to think about right now. Not to mention we have passed the point of this post being advantageous for anyone.
I will challenge the guy to a thumb wrestle but I doubt he would accept.

**Ed the Roofer** · 10-10-2007, 11:37 PM

Gentlemen!!!!!

ARE WE READY TO THUMBLE....................

Ready.....

Set......

Thumble...............

Ed

OH!!!

Wait a minute!

Can more join in?

dirt diggler · 10-11-2007, 06:02 AM

here - i'll try to save this thread

.... (3 minutes later) ...

eh ....

copusbuilder · 10-11-2007, 08:01 AM

You guys are sick

Mike Finley · 10-11-2007, 09:30 AM

No thumb wrestly required. Let's W-2 Battle.

Ready... aim... whip em out.

Flikka · 10-11-2007, 06:25 PM

This was a very interesting read. I see one person whose aim is to succeed in his business to the standards he has set so that he will be able to sell it and make a profit off his hard work. That is an awesome goal and a successful one once achieved because it will meet your goals. Which will change as you go along and that's ok.

I see another person who has grown his business to the point that he feels free to persue other avenues in life. He feels that he owes nothing to the business and the business owes him nothing. He takes money, doing little, to grow a new business. What's not to be in awe over with that? I think that it is really cool. My hat's off to the person that can walk away from it all with a smile on his face. That is exciting!

We all measure success differently and at the end of it all, does it really matter what anyone else thinks? As long as you're smilin on your way out the door......I think not.

Cheers
Mary

**Ed the Roofer** · 10-11-2007, 06:58 PM

Nicely stated Mary.

"To Thine Own Self Be True"

Ed

copusbuilder · 10-11-2007, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flikka

This was a very interesting read. I see one person whose aim is to succeed in his business to the standards he has set so that he will be able to sell it and make a profit off his hard work. That is an awesome goal and a successful one once achieved because it will meet your goals. Which will change as you go along and that's ok.

I see another person who has grown his business to the point that he feels free to persue other avenues in life. He feels that he owes nothing to the business and the business owes him nothing. He takes money, doing little, to grow a new business. What's not to be in awe over with that? I think that it is really cool. My hat's off to the person that can walk away from it all with a smile on his face. That is exciting!

We all measure success differently and at the end of it all, does it really matter what anyone else thinks? As long as you're smilin on your way out the door......I think not.

Cheers
Mary

Very well stated Mary. If I were more articulate I would have said that

C'mon Mike you don't think we'd tell the truth do you

10-09-2007, 07:21 PM	#81
George Z View Profile George Z Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,836) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Painting Contractor Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,836	Re: Copus And Business Size I don't see the problem with any of the two opinions on this. I agree with Grumpy, the way to free time, time with your family or time for anything, is making the business run without you. I have a contractor friend here in Toronto, he has been in the business for 20 years. He had to shut down everything even his Pay per click, just to go on his Honeymoon. I think that's pathetic! As far as the frustrations and the ups and downs experienced, there can't be any Peaks without the Valeys. Maybe things are perfect in Copusland, but reality is that owner operator businesses have endless problems as well, repeating themselves day after day, after day, after day... And Copus, I am happy things are working so great for you. __________________ Toronto Painters Commercial Painting Commercial Painting Toronto Toronto Office Painters Painting Toronto Blog Last edited by George Z; 10-09-2007 at 07:24 PM.

10-09-2007, 08:18 PM	#82
Grumpy View Profile Grumpy Bah Humbug! Send Message Follow Blogs (17) Threads (8,574) Photos (0) Reviews (49) Projects (12) Toolbox (43) View All Activity Bah Humbug! Trade: Roofing and Gutter Specialist Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 8,574	Re: Copus And Business Size Copus, I am not lost. I know exactly where I am going and exactly how I am going to get there. I have goals, and plans and I execute those plans. Spinning wheels isn't the same as trying creative management techniques. Trying new things is sometimes an asset and sometimes a liability. Sitting still is stagnation and a sure way to go out of business. We must continually organize and re-organize our businesses to the changing dynamic of our world. It might seem nuts to you that I am trying something new, and it may end up being nuts, but it also may end up being a revolution that others adopt into their business strategies. I think you are the lost cause in this case. Refusal to open your eyes to what is and what can be. Just because you at some point had the same golas as I, but decided you couldn't pull it off doesn't mean others can't pull it off, because others can, have and currently are pulling it off. You own multiple businesses and you insist on talking about the 2nd when I am talking about the first. You may as well be speaking chinese. I can not vary from straight ahead, I can not take the well tuned vehicle out of 5th gear until I heave reached my destination. I MUST be full steam ahead. When I reach my destination, at that time, I can cruise around and will be free to try other things. Spreading myself thin is how I will fail at all my endeavours. Focusing on one at a time, whole heartedly, is how I will suceed.

10-09-2007, 08:29 PM	#83
copusbuilder View Profile copusbuilder Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,358) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Builder/Remodeler- Master Electrician Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Crockett Texas Posts: 1,358	Re: Copus And Business Size Well George, seeing you are one of the "King of sales guys" I will take your comments as tongue in cheek. I never shut my business down to take a vacation I don't seem to have the day to day problems you mention Your right, Life is damned good in Copus land because Copus made it that way. I did it through diversification. The problem you guys have is that you equate downsizing and re-organizing with failure. You fail to see to the side. You can only look in one direction and that is straight ahead. __________________ www.copusconstruction.com www.etexasrentals.com www.thelakevoice.com AkA Richard Cranium

10-09-2007, 08:53 PM	#86
Ed the Roofer View Profile Ed the Roofer Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (7,135) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Roofing Contractor Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NW Suburbs of Chicago Posts: 7,135	Re: Copus And Business Size So, as many insurance adjusters have told me when debating the merits of an insureable claim loss: "I Guess We Agree To Disagree!" Even with the philosophies being aimed in different directions, I think that we can all agree that no matter what business philosophy is discussed, we can all learn from it. To quote James Cagny, (some old dude actor), from a scene in which he was being interrogated and he responds to the remark: Interrogator: "Lies! You are telling us nothing but lies!" James Cagny: "Don't my lies tell you just as much as my truths!" Ed

10-09-2007, 08:56 PM	#87
Grumpy View Profile Grumpy Bah Humbug! Send Message Follow Blogs (17) Threads (8,574) Photos (0) Reviews (49) Projects (12) Toolbox (43) View All Activity Bah Humbug! Trade: Roofing and Gutter Specialist Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 8,574	Re: Copus And Business Size Agreeing to disagree isn't good enough when the truth is right there in front of us all but is being corrupted, I feel a duty to defend the truth... All be it maybe a trush as I see it and perhaps only I see it but none the less... It is my duty.

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10-09-2007, 09:37 PM	#88
copusbuilder View Profile copusbuilder Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,358) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Builder/Remodeler- Master Electrician Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Crockett Texas Posts: 1,358	Re: Copus And Business Size Alas,,,he admits to being "super roofer". Truth, Justice and the Grumpy way I can lay a shingle better than anyother....No wait,,,,I can get others to lay a shingle better than anyother. I will shingle the world...Puleeze The world wouldn't be the same without you Grumpy __________________ www.copusconstruction.com www.etexasrentals.com www.thelakevoice.com AkA Richard Cranium

10-09-2007, 09:40 PM	#89
copusbuilder View Profile copusbuilder Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,358) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Builder/Remodeler- Master Electrician Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Crockett Texas Posts: 1,358	Re: Copus And Business Size Ed, you have some class Guess this is a case of....If someone doesn't like it don't click on it cause we haven't gotten very far Despite the differences I would love to sit down and drink a beer with Grumpy cause I could talk him into buying __________________ www.copusconstruction.com www.etexasrentals.com www.thelakevoice.com AkA Richard Cranium

10-10-2007, 09:26 PM	#91
copusbuilder View Profile copusbuilder Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,358) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Builder/Remodeler- Master Electrician Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Crockett Texas Posts: 1,358	Re: Copus And Business Size Wow Grumpy, you actually came down a notch I really don't think there is much to be gained from continuing so I will politely remove myself. We do not see eye to eye and we can both run each other to the ground taking our moral high ground Thanks for the comments and I am sure we will batter each other again..... __________________ www.copusconstruction.com www.etexasrentals.com www.thelakevoice.com AkA Richard Cranium

10-10-2007, 09:31 PM	#92
dougchips View Profile dougchips Insert title Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (4,677) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Insert title Trade: Doors-Windows-Decks Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: MA&RI Posts: 4,677	Re: Copus And Business Size Um, did grumpy win?

10-10-2007, 09:50 PM	#93
copusbuilder View Profile copusbuilder Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,358) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Builder/Remodeler- Master Electrician Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Crockett Texas Posts: 1,358	Re: Copus And Business Size He's as hard headed as I am I have a lot of other things to think about right now. Not to mention we have passed the point of this post being advantageous for anyone. I will challenge the guy to a thumb wrestle but I doubt he would accept. __________________ www.copusconstruction.com www.etexasrentals.com www.thelakevoice.com AkA Richard Cranium

10-10-2007, 11:37 PM	#94
Ed the Roofer View Profile Ed the Roofer Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (7,135) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Roofing Contractor Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NW Suburbs of Chicago Posts: 7,135	Re: Copus And Business Size Gentlemen!!!!! ARE WE READY TO THUMBLE.................... Ready..... Set...... Thumble............... Ed OH!!! Wait a minute! Can more join in?

10-11-2007, 06:02 AM	#95
dirt diggler View Profile dirt diggler Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (3,309) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: contractor Join Date: May 2006 Location: east Posts: 3,309	Re: Copus And Business Size here - i'll try to save this thread .... (3 minutes later) ... eh ....

10-11-2007, 08:01 AM	#96
copusbuilder View Profile copusbuilder Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,358) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Builder/Remodeler- Master Electrician Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Crockett Texas Posts: 1,358	Re: Copus And Business Size You guys are sick __________________ www.copusconstruction.com www.etexasrentals.com www.thelakevoice.com AkA Richard Cranium

10-11-2007, 09:30 AM	#97
Mike Finley View Profile Mike Finley Chief Toilet Mover Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (14,078) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Chief Toilet Mover Trade: Bathroom Remodeling Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Littleton, Colorado Posts: 14,078	Re: Copus And Business Size No thumb wrestly required. Let's W-2 Battle. Ready... aim... whip em out.

10-11-2007, 06:25 PM	#98
Flikka View Profile Flikka Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (153) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Interior Decorator/Painter Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: South Simcoe, Ontario Posts: 153	Re: Copus And Business Size This was a very interesting read. I see one person whose aim is to succeed in his business to the standards he has set so that he will be able to sell it and make a profit off his hard work. That is an awesome goal and a successful one once achieved because it will meet your goals. Which will change as you go along and that's ok. I see another person who has grown his business to the point that he feels free to persue other avenues in life. He feels that he owes nothing to the business and the business owes him nothing. He takes money, doing little, to grow a new business. What's not to be in awe over with that? I think that it is really cool. My hat's off to the person that can walk away from it all with a smile on his face. That is exciting! We all measure success differently and at the end of it all, does it really matter what anyone else thinks? As long as you're smilin on your way out the door......I think not. Cheers Mary

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10-11-2007, 06:58 PM	#99
Ed the Roofer View Profile Ed the Roofer Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (7,135) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Roofing Contractor Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NW Suburbs of Chicago Posts: 7,135	Re: Copus And Business Size Nicely stated Mary. "To Thine Own Self Be True" Ed Last edited by Ed the Roofer; 10-11-2007 at 07:10 PM.