Completion Dates

dirt diggler

I passed up a decent sized job the other day primarily b/c I wouldn't commit (via contract) to a completion date. (and the penalty was $$$ per day past date)

Does anyone give solid dates (written in contract) for completion??

I just can't think of a better way to open up a can of "whooping my own a@@"

Even if anyone does ... there's language "such as but not limited to ... " weather, emergencies, suppliers, etc. that could be used to bail ya out --- but at that point, the date's pointless

i read Tigerfan's post ...

FWConstGrp

Liquidated Damages...Yuk!

There was a post similar to this just a few days ago.

dirt diggler

was there???


i was wondering that ... deja vu

its still CRAAAAAAAAZY

maj

I do it now.........
The last house I built was a nightmare. I was trying to finish up the exterior because it was November and winter would be setting in soon. For some reason the homeowners thought it would be nice if they could have Thanksgiving dinner in their new house. So the push was on for me to get the inside done before thanksgiving. I worked long hours & weekends to oblige their request. They did have thanksgiving dinner there, but I had to work the first few weeks in December to finish up the outside.

I now have decided to have a written completion date in my contract for homeowner to occupy or inhabit the structure in any way. This may not be to alot of contractors liking because of the reasons you stated, but I feel confident in my time frames that I use. Once the structure is dryed-in, there's plenty of thinks to do inside, out of the weather.

In my contracts, I include a start date as well. The start date is for me to start after the foundation is in and site leveled.

The completion date gives me time for my work to get done before homies think they can have occupancy. It is a little insurance for me in case they get a little anxious.

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dirt diggler

maj --

i can tell you have good intentions --- but you can have those without completion dates (or even start dates), no?

if anything --- most of my competition spouts out unrealistic & impossible dates (and I myself tend to exxagerate on these dates as well) just to land a sale

Sort of a "shoot now, talk later" thing i guess ... but i dunno .... it's like someone asking you to forecast the future --- and sign a contract saying that you're going to be right (with monetary loss for each day you're wrong)

A lotta risk in contracting as it is ... don'tcha think?

PipeGuy

I don't have any qualms at all agreeing to a realistic completion date provided the contract has a change order clause and a start date. And don't forget, when you ask for the increase in the contract AMOUNT, don't forget to ask for the corresponding increase in the contract TIME. I learned the hard way.

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KENNEDY

I think if they want you to sign on for a late completion penalty, then you should make them sign on for an early completion bonus ($x per day). I bet that shuts 'em up.

RobertCDF

I dont give real start dates or completion dates ESPECIALLY in a contract DOUBLE ESPECIALLY if I have to loose money for every day over I go. However I have not been in business very long and I dont always know how long it will take me to do most projects.

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Robert Shaw
Colorado Springs Custom Decks
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Rich Turley

I give an estimated time of finishing, some jobs it is pretty easy to predict, others not so. I explain that to the customer. From the customers point of view, I can see that they would like to make plans, but if it were me, I wouldn't want anyone cutting corners just because they are getting behind.

Rich

Mike Finley

I got into an argument with a local talk radio personality on air one time over this. He says he makes people doing work for him sign his contract with completion dates and penalties in it, I called in to talk about it and he about blew his top when he asked me if I had any problems with it and I told him we would never sign it an why. When I pressed him and explained to him about a little concept called win/win and how a completion reward should be considered if he was insisting on a completion penalty he couldn't even grasp the concept and thought I was nuts. He started going on about "well, you would never be working for me." and I kept replying that, "Yes we would and without your contract, that how after we met and you discovered how we do business you wouldn't even think of asking us to sign your contract, that you would probably be begging us to do the work for you since you are such a fair person and reward those who do right by you." Needless to say he didn't like anybody questioning what he thought was his unique little way of doing business that he considered made him look like a genius and how he would get one over on contractors before they had the chance to get one over on him.

Mike Finley

Be careful of that Maj, don't let it bite you in the ass someday. A good rule of negotiations is to understand what is important and not important to the person sitting opposite you at the table. A completion date may be very important to some people and not of any consideration to others, setting yourself up for the trouble that could come about by having such a blanket policy for everybody might bite you one day pretty hard when it really might have been that the policy that bit you never had any consequence of whether you would have gotten the job or not in the first place.

RobertCDF

I usually try to avoid the ones who have a real tight deadline and want things done now. Or have just enough time for me to "sqeeze" it in before our big party. I like the ones that say stuff like... "Sure whenever you get to it will be fine." I had one the other day that said this "Well we need to get the deck redone before we move in 2 years so as long as you can do it before then. We would like to enjoy it a little bit before we move but no big deal if you cant" They said this after I said I was only about 2 - 3 months out.

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Robert Shaw
Colorado Springs Custom Decks
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AtlanticWBConst

We will never list any dates, nor commit to any dates, as past experience show that problems WILL arise.
In fact, we have clauses in our contracts that say we are not liable for delays caused by manufacturer's mistakes, shipping delays, Homeowner hired sub-contractors, etc....

We walked away from a good job offer because, the HO had listed all kinds of requirements that included DATES and Guarantees. - That was the determining factor to RUN....

(I passed the plans by a few other GC friends to see if they were interested ..... and they all Ran too....18 months + later and no work has yet started on that home)

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Gordo

Good job Atlantic. It seems most people want their job finished by some before some "special occasion"(quoting Sonny Lykos). Just a disaster waiting to happen. Then all the HO friends hear about how the contractor did not do such and such by such and such date at the "special occasion". Most people do not understand there are many factors out of the control of contractors hands (weather, Promised lead times, factory delays, mistakes, CO's, etc.)

I am convinced you make money on picking the RIGHT jobs and letting the bogus ones go.

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Looks like some pros were here.

maj

First of all..... I don't have unrealistic completion dates.
Second....... I do not use this as a way to "land a sale". I AM NOT a salesman. I have never had to "sell" a job. All my work comes to me by word of mouth.
Third...... There is nothing said about $$ penalties in my contract.. It is just a simple promise in writing.
Fourth...... I do not "shoot now, talk later". Why would I have to make promises to "land a sale" when I have more work than I can handle already. Like I said, I don't use this for selling the job, I use it to keep the job running under MY time frame, not the homie's !!

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maj

That's exactly right pipe.... This last contract on the house I'm building now, I listed May 8 as the start date & August 8 as completion. The concrete guys were delayed on their work which shoved back the backfill & leveling of the site. I now have an August 15 completion date bacause of other subs delays. If there are change orders or delays beyond MY control along the way, I will keep moving back the completion date. Homies are fully aware of this before signing contract.

Remember, I AM NOT using the contract to "sell" the house. I already have the job. I just use it to make sure ho's don't jump the gun & decide to move in before it's time.

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TigerFan

We do an estimated completion date now and with NO penalties. It is simply a rough idea of when we will be substantially complete with a project.

We do extend the date for any type of delay on a 3 to 1 basis. For example: Comp date was Aug 1. HVAC systems started 1 day late because of material delivery. New comp date is now Aug 4.

tf

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dirt diggler

nothin wrong with an estimated - ESTIMATED completion date

and i still wouldn't put it in writing

and there is no reason to expose yourself to any penalties ...

it's risky enough already

Spectatorz

I alway's try to offer an "Estimated" time of completion.

If the customer starts talking about "Penalties" for "Late Completions"

I Agree, as Long as there is a "Bonus" Clause at a Higher Rate for "Early" Completion as well.

Works Every Time.

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Shellbuilder

In Virginia it is required to have a start and completion date. It is also required that all change orders must also give number of days the change order delays the job. If I were a homeowner, I would not do business with someone who can't plan a completion date.

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