Charging For Incidental Hardware

mdshunk

Most normaly, I don't charge for incidental items. Things such as nuts, bolts, screws, anchors, wire nuts, etc., unless I've used a lot of them. Well, that might change now.

I was reviewing a bill from a few weeks ago from a hardware supplier. I had to get some Large Diameter Tapcons to mount a 6 gang meter socket in a difficult situation. Naturally, you buy the whole box... 50 in this case. It seems I pay almost 2 bucks a piece for them. I used 6 on this particular job, so I have 12 dollars (my cost) that I gave away for free. That should rightfully bill out for nearly 30 bucks.

I don't know if I have a question necessarily, but I think that a lot of guys give away what they think is "nickel-dime" stuff without billing for it specifically. You might want to rethink that... I know that I am.

Gordo

I can't even begin to tell you all the extra free work I've done in people homes, mostly without them even knowing, just because I can't bring myself to let a visible hazard continue to exist. I'm sure it's over 10 grand (retail value) each year. I'm getting better at pointing stuff out and asking first, though. I just hate to scare people into letting me do work. People are scared of electricity anyhow, so I don't want to be guilty of exploiting that. But... many things are genuine hazards.


Md you really should be charging for everything. Even those hazards that you mentioned above. I thing you are doing yourself a diservice
by letting things slide especially because you work by the hour. Unless of course, you come across someone who really is in need of help.

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mdshunk

But where does it stop? Or begin? Should I charge for each screw, nut, bolt, etc? What if I use a squirt of silicone. Does 1oz. of silicone go on the bill? Maybe I'm goofy, but I'm struggling with this at the moment. I'm pretty sure that I will be charging for the Large Diameter Tapcon's, but I'm struggling with whether I need to charge the nickel for a 6-32 x 1" machine screw. After I decide how to proceed, how can I assure that each guy is doing the same? Tie truck stock replacement to billable items? That might involve a material stores attendant, instead of the current system of restocking your own truck.

The reason this troubles me is because I'm aquainted with a plumber who often submits a 2 page bill for a half day's work. Every least little thing goes on the bill. If I was a customer, I'm not sure how I'd react to that. I know my auto mechanic puts a flat fee for "miscellaneous shop supplies" on every bill.

ron schenker

I never used to charge for gas... but now
Same with Tapcons, construction glue, caulk, etc
everything just keeps going up. I try to build it into the estimate, but every now and then I'll forget something. I feel like I'm nickel and dimeing the HO if I add these extras, so if it's less than $20 I'll absorb it and chalk it up to experience Luckily this doesn't happen too often

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mahlere

that's what we do on T&M commercial jobs. Flat rate jobs already have that line item included.

Gordo

If you are doing service work I would approach your situation along the same lines as your mechanic,

Bid work you should already know your costs......its the labor that is the X factor. Labor will kill you.

I agree with Ron thelittle things will nickel and dime you. Seems like you can spend $30 just for some Deckmates, glue, and caulk.

Ho should be billed for these items regardless.

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jmic

When I quote jobs I'm always figuring a percentage for Misc. items.
M.D. I'm just pulling this figure out of the air, but it sounds like you could be leaving 8 - 10K on the table at the end of the year by not charging for these kind of sundries.

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mdshunk

Nah, that's the amount I already think I know I do for free. I'm just now calculating up the stuff I didn't realize I was giving away.

My trade is a little different than most construction trades. It's mostly only plumbers, electricians, and HVAC men that do service calls. It's too easy to leave the incidentals off the material list or final bill when you have them on the truck and so easy to grab.

RobertCDF

I would set up some kind of chart thing <$100 service call = $5 for "misc nuts, bolts, screws." $101-200 = $10 for "misc nuts, bolts, screws. And so on. When I bid things I do my best to add in more than enough nails, screws, glue, etc.

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joasis

When i work an estimate, I usually add 10% for unforseen incedentals..and that is what it can add up to in a hurry. By the time you stop, trip to town, back..and do this a couple of times, you have a hell of a lot more then $20 worth of hardware in it. As a note here, I use GRK Torx fasteners now for a lot of tasks...and a 1500 count box of them bad boys is $135....lots different then a box of clipped nails for a gun for $20...so we do have to cover this or it will eat our lunch.

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Ken@K&R

We do alot just using assemblys. Every outlet gets charged as a box, a outlet, and 3 wire nuts or pig tails. I get each price seperate and make sure I charge say $3 for the box and it's enough to cover either a new or old work box. $3 for an outlet covers both decor or standard. $.12 for each wire nut. That gives me a standard price of $6.36 add in a per foot charge for wire. Then toss in labor, mark up, OH, and whatever else needed. It is a bit time consuming at first but then everything starts to run smoothly. If we just go in and just swap an outlet I still charge for the assembly.

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RobertCDF

Nice screw I like to see others using such a nice quality screw. Those things make life easy dont they?

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Peladu

Those extras are also already factored in to the bid price for me.
If its an extra, they are also factored in the bid price.
My customer shouldn't pay extra because I fouled up my estimate and forgot to add 'constriction adhesive' to it.

Md, sounds like all you need to do is raise your bids a touch more to cover your bases better.

Teetorbilt

T&M, 10%. It's built into bids.

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mdshunk

You don't really bid T&M work, which is most of what I do (service calls).

theworx

Then your rate per hour should go up a little to cover the sundries of doing the job. You buy wire nuts at your wholesaler (probably at least 150 in a pack) average that cost over how many you use per service call and be generous. You have to buy a tube of silicone to put two dabs on for one customer, charge them for the whole tube. Those little extras just eat away at your profit... You are good at what you do and customers should pay for everything that is required to accomplish the work. The cost of the little stuff should either be built into your cost per hour or charged under the materials part of your invoice (my garage charges $1.00 for a squirt of oil). I paid them $4.00 to fix my squeaky breaks and now I can't stop...

Double-A

mdshunk, I'd suggest a flat 1.5% on all of your bills for shop supplies. This should be calculated on all T&M performed on that call, but not on permits or other fees, etc.

On average I have found that this will more than cover the $30 bucks billable you're seeing missed on that one invoice.

Its the fairest way I can think of, without taking the time and effort to record every little thing used on a service call, like the junk you put on aluminum wires, lube for pulling, caulks, sealants, glues, fasteners, etc.

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maj

I keep a pretty good supply of various fasteners (screws, nails,tapcons,caulk,etc.) in my truck at all times. Most of these are left over from job to job. If I need a few pounds of 3 1/8" GRK's for a small job, I'll just get five pounds and whatever is left goes in the coffee can. That way at least a customer has paid for them and not me. I may use something on customer B's job that customer A has paid for.

The other thing I do which I haven't seen posted here yet, is keep receipts of all supplies I purchase. Even if it's only a couple bucks. I have it all deducted off my income at the end of the year as a business cost. So if you are "giving away" $10,000 worth of supplies, at least it really isn't costing you anything, just losing some markup. These items would be wood glue, WD40, silicone, chalk, etc.

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mdshunk

I appreciate all the responses so far.

What I think I've figured out is that I sorta do have incidental hardware built into the general overhead as part of the hourly cost. When I do estimates and bids, I kinda do use an "assembly" for unit pricing, so that pretty much covers me there.

What I think I've found out is that some items (like the Large Diameter Tapcons) aren't so "incidental", and really deserve to be charged seperately. I'm starting to realize that some things that I thought were incidental items are not, and that's simply an administrative oversight. I know that I "give away" lots of Romex connectors, because the 3/8 one's aren't but a few cents, but that causes me to give away a lot of the bigger sizes without too much thought into the cost of them. I think that the 2" one's might be closer to 3 bucks each.

reveivl

How does that work? A deduction just means you don't pay income tax on that amount, no? But you still have to pay for it which costs you money out of pocket. The deduction decreases the cost of it by your tax rate.

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