Change Order verbage - PA laws - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

AmeliaP · 10-06-2009, 06:47 AM

I haven't seen any specifics as to the verbage for PA Change Orders under the new laws. Is there any?

Obviously the Business Name, HIC#, address, phone#, yadda yadda, as well as the items actually changed from the original contract must be included.

Is that it for the requirements from the state?

Willie T · 10-06-2009, 11:32 AM

I don't have "yadda-yadda" in mine. And I hope you have a lot more than just what you listed. Since each CO should become a part of the original contract, that should be stated somewhere on each one. As should how the change will be paid for, and by whom. And how time scheduling is effected, if at all. This could get you into all sorts of trouble if not addressed.

Just to name a few points.

There's a lot that should be on one of those. It is not, after all, just a memo.

CookeCarpentry · 10-06-2009, 03:25 PM

Amelia -

No T&M on change orders in PA.

Must have an area that spells out the cost of the change order, as well as the revised job total cost (and any implications it may have on payment schedules).

modterry · 10-10-2009, 10:27 AM

This is where - a good attorney might come in handy. Especially, if you can't charge Time and Materials. We don't have that here in our state.

Our CO explains that it may cause delays to the job, incur extra scheduling , and allows you flexibility . Remember, the Customer is still focused on the schedule you started with originally and needs to be made aware moving that window is costly.

Here's a helpful system for you. I was constantly in conflict between the staff and customer over the hours spent and billedon a CO. The staff did not accurately record their time ( always guessing 2 weeks later what they did ) then, the customer would always say the staff didn't spend that much time - I was caught in the middle.

I started a system in the Job Notebook - I put the CO in the notebook. Made the staff enter their time in just like a time card, including runs to the lumber yard, Each and Every day they worked on that CO. The Customer could look at any time , how much time was spent. If the time was not logged in the form by the staff - no pay.

This eliminated all discussions about our Labor Charges on a CO.

Also, In our Contracts - we tell what we charge for labor and materials ahead of time on Time and Materials / CO's by the type of trade and what we mark up materials.

This also helps the customer and you when the CO's start coming.

I might add - we make it a point not to have many change orders or additions. I feel it is a lack of good sales if you start coming up with major changes during your project.

CO's interrupt my schedule and flow and I really don't like them. I know a lot of low bidders who live off of CO's and I think it makes customers unhappy and people don't like suprizes.

Terry

CookeCarpentry · 10-10-2009, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by modterry

This is where - a good attorney might come in handy. Especially, if you can't charge Time and Materials. We don't have that here in our state.

Our CO explains that it may cause delays to the job, incur extra scheduling , and allows you flexibility . Remember, the Customer is still focused on the schedule you started with originally and needs to be made aware moving that window is costly.

Here's a helpful system for you. I was constantly in conflict between the staff and customer over the hours spent and billedon a CO. The staff did not accurately record their time ( always guessing 2 weeks later what they did ) then, the customer would always say the staff didn't spend that much time - I was caught in the middle.

I started a system in the Job Notebook - I put the CO in the notebook. Made the staff enter their time in just like a time card, including runs to the lumber yard, Each and Every day they worked on that CO. The Customer could look at any time , how much time was spent. If the time was not logged in the form by the staff - no pay.

This eliminated all discussions about our Labor Charges on a CO.

Also, In our Contracts - we tell what we charge for labor and materials ahead of time on Time and Materials / CO's by the type of trade and what we mark up materials.

This also helps the customer and you when the CO's start coming.

I might add - we make it a point not to have many change orders or additions. I feel it is a lack of good sales if you start coming up with major changes during your project.

CO's interrupt my schedule and flow and I really don't like them. I know a lot of low bidders who live off of CO's and I think it makes customers unhappy and people don't like suprizes.

Terry

Terry - good advice, if we could charge T&M. Still a good system for keeping in-house records.

Basically, all CO's should be treated like a new project as far as bidding, cost, etc., as well as budgeting extra time for inconvenience.

While I think most of us do not like CO's, they are a necessary, but I find them much better to handle when it's generated by a customer changing their mind.