Change Order Question

Plumber_Pete

First off I've already contacted my lawyer about this and am waiting a meeting.

I am doing a new construction job. I included 2 tankless water heaters in my original bid. The locations were yet to be determined so I did not include and vent pipe for these heaters. I also did not specifically exclude it. I bought and installed the vent pipe when the time came without getting a signed change order as required by contract. (I had done this before with no issues. I added the cost to the invoice and was paid for it.

I now have a current invoice due with the owner and he is refusing to pay up, stating that he overpaid in the past (vent pipe). He assumed it was included in the price of the original id even though it was listed as a separate line item. The original bid had the tankless heaters on a separate line item and the cost obviously only covers the units, not labor and venting like he claims.

Anyone been through something like this?

naptown CR

You did not specifically exclude them. did your contract say no other work to be done or a clause that states that any work not specifically included in this contract will be at extra cost. If not you may be out of luck

Plumber_Pete

Isn't that the point of a contract? That any work not specified is not included? I'm not saying the labor wasn't included. I'm just talking about the cost of the vent pipe itself. There was no way I could of determined this at the bid stage as on the scope of work he provided me it says "location of water heaters to be determined".

naptown CR

Your OP said you were dealing with the owner. Unfortunately most courts and states have the cards stacked against you as a contractor. Seems that they think we should be pro's. The owner could plead ignorance and maybe get away with it. I know this sucks but that is the reality you have to be very specific and in plain english not technospeak. When this came up did you present a change order and have it signed authorizing the work?

J F

...and the vent pipe can be very expensive, no?...the few times I've looked into it in the past, it was "proprietary" with the manufacturer spec-ing their own shiite that was pretty pricey...it's been awhile though, and the few times ended going with traditional water heaters...

Plumber_Pete

Yes we are talking about 900 dollars worth of vent pipe here. Exactly why I did not price it. There was so much variance on what it could of been.

No I did not get the change order, my mistake. But to me, why does this mean the he gets it for free and it kills the rest of my job here?

naptown CR

The Rinnai stuff is REALLY expensive

J F

Tough spot Pete, but legally imo you might be eatin' this one...it would be nice to have an understanding h/o, but a contract is a contract...if you didn't have any mention of the vent-pipe being priced after location was determined, you're probably gonna get screwed...not many judges are going to agree with your (the professional's side) I don't believe...

...oops, just read where you've been paid for it already...you might have a chance...maybe...and court/legal crap can be expensive in both $ and personal toll...

Keep trying to reason with the h/o...how much moola we talkin' about?

rbsremodeling

You have no leg to stand on in my opinion.

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Plumber_Pete

we talking about less than 900 dollars. My lawyer happens to side differently than most of you.

J F

That's why he's your lawyer ... he's got that boat payment, ya know..

naptown CR

OK lets think here Vent pipe $900.00
Lawyer $200-$300 per hour
1/2 hour talking to you on phone today to discuss
1 hour writing demand letter
2 hours negotiating wit homeowner to no avail
1 hour writing lawsuit and filing
4 hours sitting in court waiting for trial to come up to LOSE!
Total for lawyer 8.5 hours $1700-$2550
Even if you win you lose ,if you lose you lose even bigger.
DO NOT REPEAT DO NOT DO ANYTHING EXTRA WITHOUT A SIGNED CHANGE ORDER!

J F

...and that's not to say you can't possibly get payment from just a letter from your attorney...but it's usually a LOT more than that...good luck man.

rbsremodeling

My lawyer would kick your lawyers ass on that one.

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Plumber_Pete

I know what you guys are saying. I wrote my client a letter explaining that I had spoken with my lawyer, and what his opinion was.

Furthermore I explained to him that I did not wish to leave the job and wished to come to an understanding to be able to complete the job. I just am not sure what that understanding would have to be for me to not feel screwed.

rbsremodeling

Maybe a handjob from the GC's secretary?

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J F

If this $900 is what you need to pay your mortgage and feed 5 lil' babies..... there's no way it makes sense to proceed further, legally...if the $900 and the next $9,000 don't make any difference, then proceed..you may get financial and personal satisfaction...maybe.

I would highly recommend getting better with your contracts and/or change orders...but I'll bet you know that by know...still hopin' the best for you.

J F

...and a hand mixed margarita..preferably before the aforementioned deed is done...

Plumber_Pete

I don't need the 900 dollars. I realize I screwed up. First mistake was to sign his contract and not mine. I now have my own detailed contract and have not missed one change order in quite some time. It's more a matter of principle I suppose in that I honest to god did not include this venting in my bid.

Aframe

I can't see how this would be issued as a "change order" as opposed to a bill for materials since you said location had not been determined, you could argue that how could you have known how much pipe to include.

Because you did not exclude the pipe in the bid it may not fly, but you might be try to get a portion of it from the HO. Was the amount of pipe more than your typical install?
ex: you figured in x ft. of pipe in your bid, (typical install) but theirs was y ft(x2)