Carpenter Compensation Packages Comparison

 
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Old 11-04-2017, 08:01 AM   #21
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Re: Carpenter Compensation Packages Comparison


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I hear you, I was in charge of scheduling subs a lot with my previous employer. They loved not showing up when they were supposed to abs showing up unannounced.

Where about in North Jersey do you operate? I'm down in Ewing now, so it's probably too far unless you ever work more central

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Subs are the bane of my existence.

I am in Montclair, it would be about an hour and a half for you so probably not worth it. We pretty much work no more than 30 minutes from the office given NJ traffic and the density of this area.
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Old 11-04-2017, 10:35 AM   #22
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Re: Carpenter Compensation Packages Comparison


Prices are all over the place. Seen them differ over $100,000 on a $400,000 project, no telling how they came up with their numbers. I have competed against pretty good contractors who were less than I was considerably, for the same scope of work. They are working out of their truck with low overhead and their markup reflects that. They seem to make a good living. I have really just two contractors in mind there. One does rather small projects like kitchens and baths and the other custom homes and only large-scale remodeling. Before I began charging for proposals I quit turning in proposals when they were involved, no ill feelings though. Good for them for keeping their overhead low. Some of this was fairly substantial, more than 20% of the project cost often especially on smaller stuff.

The custom home guy was not as good imo, he did a lot of things himself, some he was really good at it and some that he was really not as good as a specialist would be. If we competed against each other in the parade I would Slaughter his ass. But when you're looking at a $400,000 house and he is 35 or $40,000 less it is tough to overcome. The more expensive the house the easier it is it to overcome regardless of the margin of difference in my opinion

I did beat out the guy who does kitchens and baths primarily on a whole house remodel a few years ago when I was considerably higher, the other side of the coin is he is not able to offer some of the things I am able to.

Point is it's not always just not apples-to-apples bidding. It is sometimes business practices.

NJ, I thought you charged for proposals? Are you losing these projects after they pay you for the proposal?
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Old 11-04-2017, 10:37 AM   #23
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Re: Carpenter Compensation Packages Comparison


Also, what is the idea behind saying that people who use subs or not paying as much as they would if they had employees? I have both and I pay more for the subs. They have the same cost I do (- workers compensation, I am the only general contractor I know who carries it on a crew, I do not carry it on the subs. It is not illegal in Texas not to have it and almost no one does) trucks, vans, tools, hoodies, hats, PTO, holidays, rain days and those guys are also trying to make a profit on those hands just like I am.
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Old 11-04-2017, 10:48 AM   #24
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Re: Carpenter Compensation Packages Comparison


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Prices differ over $100,000 on a $400,000 project, no telling how they came up with their numbers. I have competed against pretty good contractors who were less than I was considerably, for the same scope of work. They are working out of their truck with low overhead and their markup reflects that. They seem to make a good living. I have really just to contractors in mind there. One does rather small projects like kitchens and baths and the other custom homes and only large-scale remodeling. Before I begin charging for proposals I quit turning in proposals when they were involved, no ill feelings though. Good for them for keeping their overhead low. Some of this was fairly substantial, as much as 20% of the project cost.

I did beat out the guy who does kitchens and baths primarily on a whole house remodel a few years ago when I was considerably higher, the other side of the coin is he is not able to offer some of the things I am able to.

Point is it's not always just not apples-to-apples bidding. It is sometimes business practices.

NJ, I thought you charged for proposals? Are you losing these projects after they pay you for the proposal?
Jaws, I do charge for proposals. The other contractors estimate was shown to me after I had put together our proposal and was paid a $1,500 fee. I kept the fee but would not lower my price without reducing scope.

My only thought is this company came in at break-even or even a slight loss to keep their crew busy given they are slightly larger in scale and have more overhead; including a downtown office space, warehouse space, larger office staff, larger fleet of work vehicles, etc... Hopefully they will keep this up and put themselves out of business in the near future.

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Old 11-04-2017, 10:49 AM   #25
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Re: Carpenter Compensation Packages Comparison


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Also, what is the idea behind saying that people who use subs or not paying as much as they would if they had employees? I have both and I pay more for the subs. They have the same cost I do (- workers compensation, I am the only general contractor I know who carries it on a crew, I do not carry it on the subs. It is not illegal in Texas not to have it and almost no one does) trucks, vans, tools, hoodies, hats, PTO, holidays, rain days and those guys are also trying to make a profit on those hands just like I am.
I agree, I usually find I can do things less expensive and of better quality in-house, even if the guys are not as efficient in the work.

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Old 11-04-2017, 11:06 AM   #26
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Re: Carpenter Compensation Packages Comparison


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I agree, I usually find I can do things less expensive and of better quality in-house, even if the guys are not as efficient in the work.
With this and above post - if they are large companies they may be using illegal ( 1099 employees not paying taxes and crappy insurance/ryobi ect... I see it often with the larger builders

One of my Subs does so much work for me that I had to make him letter his trucks and get a accountant to do his books and payroll, he had no idea how to run it legitimate payroll because everywhere he had ever worked or been around was 1099 employees

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Old 11-04-2017, 11:09 AM   #27
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Re: Carpenter Compensation Packages Comparison


That sucks to get paid for a proposal and not get the job. I have had it happened twice, once I turned away the job and gave back the money after the proposal was done because it became apparent she was a loose nut. I actually just did this, I had her on the books for a custom next to my view lot custom. The other was the same thing you came with, we were just too high for them.

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Old 11-04-2017, 01:11 PM   #28
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Re: Carpenter Compensation Packages Comparison


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One of my Subs does so much work for me that I had to make him letter his trucks and get a accountant to do his books and payroll, he had no idea how to run it legitimate payroll because everywhere he had ever worked or been around was 1099 employees
I've done the same for a few painting contractors in the past, including setting up the LLC, all the way up to sponsoring them for US citizenship.

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