Asking The HO For The Other Guys Proposal.

Ed the Roofer

My other post brought this question up.

What methods or verbage do you use to politely request the copies of your competitors bids either before or after you have a signed contract?

Ed

dougchips

I'll generally pick out something that I find as odd and say "I wonder if anyone else noticed this, can I see your other bids". It there is nothing odd, I will just say "this job looks like a nice basic install, hopefully nobody tried to charge you for extras". OR the catch all, "in order to make sure that my estimate is an apple to apple comparison to your others, let me compare them". I love when they hand me estimates on a plain piece of paper or on the back of a business card. Seldom do I leave without seeing the other estimates.

Danahy

Sometime's they are left out on the counter with the other business cards.... almost like they were left out on purpose.

ruskent

Its best to ask for the other estimates when you collect the homeowners references. You know, a list of other contractors that have done work for the homeowner before!


Honestly, i have never asked to see any of the other estimates. I think it would be a good thing to see, REGARDLESS if they cover up the price or not.

So many times i loose a job to some one who was 2500 dollors cheaper but he spec the job ENTIRELY different from the way i did. I mean, i could of ended up doing the job for 3k less than i bid, if i speced it the way the other guy did! And i still would of made my overhead and desired profit.

Matt

Ed the Roofer

Read my other post about " the other guy included ......"
and you will see the secondary or possibly primary reason why I ask for the other contractors bids.

The other reason, is I can always learn how someone else expresses themselve about how to do a certain task, which may be more consumer freindly than the way I state it.

Oh, BTW, I meant to gather them up to take back with you after you get the signed contract.

I personally usually strike out when I ask to see the other guys bids while we are discussing the proposal specifications, UNLESS, I tell them to cover up the other guys price. This is still during the presentation stage and I think most of my HO's are poker players and don't want to show there hand.

Ed

Grumpy

It's really easy when the customer is comaring you to them, "the other guy this", "the other guy that."

"Really? can I see a copy to make sure we are comparing apples to apples."



If you are an employee: "Can I have copies of my competitor proposal, my boss will pay me a bonus for each scalp I bring home."

"Would you mind if I have a copy of my competitors proposal? Afterall you won't be needing them anymore and I realy like to know where I stand in terms of quality and a professionally written proposal form."

I have stacks of competitor proposal so thick, but I still periodically go through them, and when I get new copies I like to see how my competitor has changed... and I especially like when I see a competitors proposal who has copied some wording from one of my proposals.

Boogga

Yeah it's good to see but is it ethical?? I don't think so. Picture your quote being splashed about to all other builders out there! It makes me sick! But if the occasion arose, I would obsurb it in curiousity and see how they do things regarding the quote. IS THAT A CONTRADICTION?

Also these people out there that want or ask to see other peoples quotes so they can beat that price by 10%. Comeon people on this forum, PLAY IT CLEAN!

__________________

"It's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees"

john elliott

I think you have completely misunderstood what has been said in this thread. There is nothing unethical about seeing other proposals after the job has been awarded, and nothing unethical about ensuring that a rival's bid is for exactly the same work.

John

__________________
Ed the Roofer said "John too, in his crass and blunt demeanor.............."

Ed the Roofer

Right On, John.

Nothing unethical about it.

Heck, I have learned quite a few general condition boilerplate clauses from collecting somewhere between 120-150 of my competitor proposals over the years.

It is also interesting to see when the low-baller finally starts getting smarter and raises their prices to cover their nut.

Another interesting observation, is that the same company, with several different salesmen, noticing how much of a varience they have on the prices they bid at.

I don't use their proposals to match or beat, but just to get them out of the homeowners hands after they decided to go with me so it avoids conflicting collective memory funks in the mind of the homeowner.

They signed with me, now get the other stuff off the table and out of the way, so they don't second guess themselves. I don't even care if they cross out the other contractors pricing.

Ed

DamionR

Even better is to keep them - helps kill the competition that way muhahahahaha.....

Take up some David Blain Magic Lessons first

FCPWLLC

I always ask prospects to not show or disclose my proposal to anyone. I want the F&%$#ing Low Baller to hang himself by not knowing that I bid $500 and he comes in at $475. I'd rather he think that he is bidding against another Low Baller and come in at $200. This helps prospect see that there must be something very wrong with the guys bid or they hire the guy and he leaves money on the table and goes out of biz that much quicker. I can't stand when other contractors that don't know how to sell or bid, use my proposal to learn. Basically, I explain to the prospect that they should allow the other bidder to bid his own work and see for themselves the discrepencies.

__________________
First Choice Power Washing LLC
Lexington, KY 859-983-5955, Member of Better Business Bureau, Greater Lexington Apartment Association ,Insured and Licensed
Pressure Washing Cleaning Service Lexington KY

DamionR

Here's an idea...

Why even tell them at the appointment? You're setting yourself up to invite them to receive other estimates... and keeping them from making a decision at the time of your appointment.

Do you send out a pre-mailer? You could create a "Top 7 Mistakes Homeowners make when researching A Pressure Washing Company" - coudl be sent through email to cut down on costs.

You can highlight different thigns like this in your report, along with other factors that give your competition an advantage. You can also prep the competition for failure through this.

For example... let's say your competition has a 10% coupon discount. You can explain to the customers that many companies increase their job price by the amount of your coupon if they know ahead of time that you have it. Hold the coupon until after you are quoted a price... then present it. Of course... knowing this information and that your prospects will have coupons for you (if you offer them)... you accomodate for this discount before the price is given.

Boogga

I beg to differ.

WHAT IS ETHICS?

__________________

"It's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees"

john elliott

With who?
For a short answer, try
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics

You're welcome

John

__________________
Ed the Roofer said "John too, in his crass and blunt demeanor.............."

DamionR

I should make an edit on wikipedia

4) Does not apply to the remodeling industry

the_turd_man

sorry you can say it unethical. But I call it survival. I want to know what everyone else charges and why. The why is the big question.
It does not mean I will drop my price but allows me to be a more estute business man and grasp the immediate market. Theres no fair play in business guys. Those who play fair retire poor. I am a good contractor and my work is very good and many do the same good work. But being a good businessman will make the difference of making a living or making a killing

hiaderph

personally, i don't care what other contractor's proposals are, and would never ask to look at them. i'm an "astute" enough of a business man that i am confident in knowing my costs, the profit margins i want to make and bid accordingly. i'll let competition worry about theirs. there's really no magic to the process, you just have to know that your numbers are where they need to be to make the bucks. as far as making a killing? i've seen it happen in too many trades where contractors start "cadillacing" their bids, only to have 6 new competitors in short order, and the local market won't support it and nobody makes any money.

the_turd_man

I think you missed the why in my post it was the important factor.
Ive never asked to look at the other guys but I would not turn it down if it was handed to me. I am not interested in price adjusting. But alot can be learned by absorbing. whether it is contractual clauses, deposits, format of the proposal/ and or contract. sale technique and closing techniche sometimes employed on the proposal are of importance to me. Large corporations spend hundreds of millions yearly doing market surveys on how their competition does business. Only a fool does not realize the market differences from region to region! even county to county! the same job could be say $40k in county xyz
well county tys the going rate is $54k. Personal opinion here is I like uniform prices. Is that cadillacing as you call it? I chose not to charge the 40k price in a 54k area because the market will bear it. Actually what I do stops lowballing on my part and degredation of fair trade rates. whatever I do is on me and I have never lost money or broke even. always turned good profit so make your own conclusion

hiaderph

as you can tell in my prior post, i had already come to my conclusion. i have no care as to what my competition charges. many large and small corporations/companies get too in tune with what their competition's price structure and totally forget about their own costs to produce, and fail. i only care about what i charge. and if i'm comfortable at my margins, that's what i bid them at

farrellpainting

i cant beleive anyone does that,if you dont know how to sell what you need to do the job right,then you shouldnt be a contractor!!!!!!!
if i found out that some hack painter went off of my bid,and just undercut it,i would seriously destroy him in everyway possible!!!!
the clueless ho loses to cause everyones job scope is different,a lowballer can undercut you,make the money that your quality work pays,and just hack the whole house up!and walk away with your check!i wish ho's were more aware of this! theres only one way to do things,the right way!and it cannot/will not be executed in that manner if the $$$ isnt there!!!!!!!!