Article In Trade Publication

Floordude

Reading an article, by Lisabeth, in the latest Floor Focus rag, I was surprised they actually printed this...

"Most of our installers are subs, "but we manage them closely"
If you are a sub and do not do what we want, you do not work for us anymore. Right now we have two substhat work exclusively for us. We utilize manufacturers training for sales and installation."



Talk about an admission of guilt, and he doesn't even know it. His partner is an attorney. Neither had any flooring experience, besides having floors in their own homes and businesses. They bought an existing business, without any knowledge of the business.


This is how wages are surpressed, and exploiting the uneducated or passive labor. I'm sending this article to the IRS, as some proof as to what I have been writing them about for the last 2 years. This guy will get an audit, hopefully.

The laws are there to prevent this, but because they have never really been enforced, and the uneducated labor are not going to know, to do anything about it, it runs rampid, all over our nation, and in the UK.

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Mike Finley

It's not just the lack of the IRS auditing A-holes like this, it's the lack of contractor licensing agencies going after unlicensed contractors, a lack of permiting agencies going after un-permited jobs and most of all it's contractors faults for not figuring out that what we need is a national organization to educate the public and contractors about licensing and permiting.

tnt specialty

Right on Floordude....

Isn't that amazing? That's how the majority of contractors operate here in Colorado; A good portion of them are totally naive to the fact, what they're doing is illegal, as well as unethical.

Unfortunatley, the IRS will most likely audit you.....LOL!

That's what happened to me when I complained.....

I still complain however.....

The U.S. Dept. of Labor, I believe, would be the most applicable agency. Send it to them also.

MIke; The "powers-at-be", (i.e., big home builders), will never allow state contractor licensing in Colorado; They've got a sweet thing going here with the "suedo-sub" labor, coupled with Denver's "sanctuary city" status for illegals.

I've sat on state licensing commitees since 1993...they always go down in flames.

Mike Finley

Is there a national organization for contractors? Seems to me the time is ripe for a national organization to begin the process of raising the bar for contractors.

Teetorbilt

Why do they have to "manage them closely"?

When I started out, I was close to being one of those subs with the exception that I worked for no one exclusively. I still sub for the remaining flooring company (the rest went under) because they substantially helped in getting me started many years ago.

They are a national franchise retail store and want no part in the business of installations. I am a sub in every respect.

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You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein

Chris Johnson

What is the advantage of using these 'Subs'? I require subs that I hire, whether it be a drywall contractor, floor installer, or roofer to submit proof of compensation and liability insurance. Bottom line - When they give me a bid to do the work it includes funds to cover these liabilities they must carry. I have hired guys who have no coverage and simply make them employees - paid hourly, cover them under my insurances.

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Chris

Teetorbilt

A retail license is cheap and easy to get. A lot of retailers don't want to get into getting a contractors license, workers comp, GLS and all of the rest of the BS so they sub out the work.

For me it's the same as any other job without the material markup.

__________________
You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein

Ed the Roofer

Yes, one called CCN so far and there are other organizations such as NARI and NAHB, but how does any of them cut out the fat. Is the only requirement for membership a fee paid on a regular basis?

Right now, a small group of contractors have recently started a new forum for the primary purpose of "Raising The Bar" and are in the process of developing a starting code of ethics and discussing what type of policies or backbone the organization should have.

It is in its infancy currently, but it developed from a thread on JLC by Sonny Lykos.

There are only 35 members on board so far, but I do not want to post the other forums name in open view as of yet, so as to not seem like recruiting supposed elite contractors over to another location.

Anyone that is a legit contractor can join, since there are minumal rules, but hacks and forum clowns who have nothing substantial to contribute will not be allowed to indulge for very long.

For a summary of what one of its purposes may develop into, searh hear for the TAC thread I posted to instigate some discussion regarding Sonny excellent idea.

Ed

Floordude

What a lot of these companies that hire and call them subs, requiring them to have worker comp insurance, don't realise, workmans comp does not cover the sub himself, but only his employees. If he has paid his employees as subcontractors, the policy he has proof of having, doesn't cover anyone.

He gets hurt, and it all comes out in the wash, he is not insured, and guess who fits the bill, since he was representing your company. Watchout!!!!!

__________________
**Education is the key to success. Learn more, earn more.**
http://www.AustinFloorguy.com

tnt specialty

Chris, Chris, Chris......

Having moved from California to Colorado, it was a shock to me also.

First off; Colorado has no contractor licensing.

Second, (the big one); There are vitually no "employees" in Colorado residential construction. The majority of the typical Colorado contractor miss-represents what are actually employees as "subs".

He does this to circumvent paying appropriate labor burdens, (i.e., workers comp. ins., F.I.C.A., fed & state UI & DI, what-have-you).

Just imagine your bidding a job with $ 50,000 in direct labor, and your DLB is 60%; That's $ 30,00 the competitor will beat you by.

Chris Johnson

Well, fortunately for me if I loose a job for a 50% plus charge difference most of my cliental (not all) will realize that their is obviously something wrong. Paying labor burdens is something that if one guy cheats he may get away with it, if two guys do it, the getting caught chances are greater and so on and so on.

I hope these clowns get caught, all of us pay our fair share and if some don't want to play by the same rule book, guess what...we the legit guys pay more...or even worse...a new tax gets implemented to cover these expenses that these others are cheating all of us on.

I cover myself with workers comp. just in case for the cost of it I find it worth it, how about you guys?

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Chris

tnt specialty

I think you'll find you & I in the minority.......

Here in Colorado, as well as alot of other states that lack licensing, contractors rarely play by the rules. We can't hardly touch much residential....our "niche" is very narrow.....and we must be extremely difersified.....