Am I Calculating This Correctly?

 
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Old 10-27-2017, 11:18 AM   #1
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Am I Calculating This Correctly?


My husband and a friend started their own handyman/remodeling company. I do all the accounting and Bill pay for them. They way I have been calculating costs, seem to be working, until tried to make a profit and loss sheet, and now I am 100% lost.

The guys split the cost of the jobs 60/40. So, I take the total job cost, and deduct material cost. Then I take out 10% for the company (I use this for insurance, Microsoft programs, office supplies, BBB..ect) We also take out 5% of job for gas to my husband (they meet every morning at our house, and my husband does all driving).

Once those are figured, I do the 60/40 split. For instance, we changed out a simple water heater for $275.

$275- total job cost
$93.19- material
$18.19- 10%
$9.09- 5%
$93.97- husband (60%)
$62.64- friend (40%)

How would I log this in excel? Am I doing this right? We do not have an "hourly labor" rate, because jobs range from a 10 minute quick fix, like $50 jobs to a $4000 kitchen remodel.

Help please!
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Old 10-27-2017, 11:37 AM   #2
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Re: Am I Calculating This Correctly?


Something's not right because the last 5 lines don't add up to 275.

Are you asking how in create an Excel spreadsheet to generate those numbers?

Enter the following into each cell:

A1 Job Income
A2 Material
A3 Company 10%
A4 Gas 5%
A5 After Expenses
A6 Husband
A7 Friend

(I added cell A5 to generate a number which is easier to use when splitting the after-expenses total into 60/40%)

B3 =(B1-B2)*0.1
B4 =(B1-B2)*0.05
B5 =B1-B2-B3-B4
B6 =B5*0.6
B6 =B5*0.4

Cells B3 through B7 should generate the following numbers (when entering 275 and 93.19 into cells B1 and B2):
18.18
9.09
154.54
92.72
61.82

About half the time, you should end up with an odd penny somewhere. You can add the following to cell B8 to cross-check the totals:
=SUM(B2:B4,B6,B7)

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Old 10-27-2017, 12:19 PM   #3
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Re: Am I Calculating This Correctly?


Quote:
Originally Posted by 480sparky View Post
Something's not right because the last 5 lines don't add up to 275.

Are you asking how in create an Excel spreadsheet to generate those numbers?

Enter the following into each cell:

A1 Job Income
A2 Material
A3 Company 10%
A4 Gas 5%
A5 After Expenses
A6 Husband
A7 Friend

(I added cell A5 to generate a number which is easier to use when splitting the after-expenses total into 60/40%)

B3 =(B1-B2)*0.1
B4 =(B1-B2)*0.05
B5 =B1-B2-B3-B4
B6 =B5*0.6
B6 =B5*0.4

Cells B3 through B7 should generate the following numbers (when entering 275 and 93.19 into cells B1 and B2):
18.18
9.09
154.54
92.72
61.82

About half the time, you should end up with an odd penny somewhere. You can add the following to cell B8 to cross-check the totals:
=SUM(B2:B4,B6,B7)
Thank you! Is this a good way to do booking? How do I find my profit And losses?
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Old 10-27-2017, 12:24 PM   #4
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Re: Am I Calculating This Correctly?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zkmconstruction View Post
Thank you! Is this a good way to do booking? How do I find my profit And losses?
Well, it will allow you to do a quick-n-dirty breakdown of each job as it comes through. But it's not near comprehensive enough to do a profit/loss statement for the bank or your accountant.

You'd be far better off buying something designed for that purpose.
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Old 10-27-2017, 12:37 PM   #5
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Re: Am I Calculating This Correctly?


Quote:
Originally Posted by 480sparky View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zkmconstruction View Post
Thank you! Is this a good way to do booking? How do I find my profit And losses?
Well, it will allow you to do a quick-n-dirty breakdown of each job as it comes through. But it's not near comprehensive enough to do a profit/loss statement for the bank or your accountant.

You'd be far better off buying something designed for that purpose.
I have no idea where to even start! The more I research, and read about Overhead, Profit margins, markups, ect... the more confused I am. I also can not find much on the type of payouts we do... is there a better way to calculate a job with the set up we have?

Like I said, each job varies, so hourly pay is not the way to go, and we are just started the business, so salary isn't an option yet either.
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Old 10-27-2017, 12:48 PM   #6
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Re: Am I Calculating This Correctly?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zkmconstruction View Post
How would I log this in excel? Am I doing this right? We do not have an "hourly labor" rate, because jobs range from a 10 minute quick fix, like $50 jobs to a $4000 kitchen remodel.

Help please!
You do have an hourly labor rate... you just don't realize it and based on what you are posting are probably not charging enough to cover it...
Labor
Overhead
Materials
Profit
Believe it or not, below is a crib notes version on this subject, so feel free to ask questions upon review...

For a small business, your annualized fixed and variable costs are contained within Labor and Overhead and will dictate what your hourly rate target should be... your Profit is not what you use to cover these costs... if your husband for example, wants to make $100K/year, without even considering the loaded costs (i.e. - taxes, health ins., W/C. etc.), assuming a 40 hour work week, you are already at $48/hour... This doesn't take into consideration the partner, nor you (you get paid correct?)... but Labor and Overhead costs are where you will come up with an hourly rate, based on a 40 hour work week...

Materials are what materials cost, PLUS you should be adding on a mark-up to cover the costs for getting, handling, and disposing of the material...

Your Profit (i.e. - what you pay your company to develop Capital Reserves / Emergency Fund / Equipment purchases, etc.) is calculate ON TOP OF the Labor, Overhead and Materials at whatever % you've determined.

Now, based on what you posted, let's look at how that translates and how you're most likely not charging enough to be in business... We'll be generous and assume only 3 hours for picking up the water heater =, bringing it to the house, installing it, and disposal...
YOUR NUMBERS
$275- total job cost
$93.19- material
$18.19- 10%
$9.09- 5%
$93.97- husband (60%)
$62.64- friend (40%)

NUMBERS SUBJECT TO ACTUAL COSTS BUT ARE FOR ILLUSTRATION

$482.00
$93.00 - material
$288.00 Labor ONLY, two men, three hours @$100K/year (assuming no loaded costs, and assumes you are being paid nothing) - $96/hour
$57.00 - Overhead (you'll have to determine your annualized costs here, which would include gas, but we'll use your 10% and 5% for gas for now in the example)
$44.00 - This is Profit in this example... what percentage you determine you need is based om your company, but in calculating what that is, you should calculate for a minimum of 3 months of Capital Reserves / Emergency Fund as well as any anticipated equipment purchases...

I know this is a lot of information to digest, but once you get to know your numbers intimately and account for everything, your excel spreadsheet will make more sense... Keep in mind, if you do not have Capital Reserves / Emergency Fund, which is developed from Profit, the ONLY place money shortfalls can come from is DIRECTLY FROM YOUR POCKET and that $100K target gets whittled at and how small companies bleed money... because everyone else still expects to be paid (i.e. - suppliers, subs, insurance, taxes, etc.) and they could care less if you know your numbers or have reserves...

Best of luck... 8^)
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Old 10-27-2017, 12:58 PM   #7
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Re: Am I Calculating This Correctly?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zkmconstruction View Post
......... I also can not find much on the type of payouts we do... is there a better way to calculate a job with the set up we have?.............

If this method of payout works for you, run with it.

But I agree with KAP. You're trying to learn to fly because the pilot has passed out. It appears you don't have any real idea what your expenses are. I've got an 8-page list of various expenses that typical construction contractor needs to know. I'll post it if you're interested.

Problem is, many small business owners are slowly bleeding out and they simply don't know it until it's far too late. And too late doesn't mean the wolves are at your door. Too late as meaning it's past the point of redemption and lawyers get involved.

Take some business management classes. Your local community college, SCORE, etc might have some.
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Old 10-27-2017, 02:56 PM   #8
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Re: Am I Calculating This Correctly?


Quote:
Originally Posted by KAP View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zkmconstruction View Post
How would I log this in excel? Am I doing this right? We do not have an "hourly labor" rate, because jobs range from a 10 minute quick fix, like $50 jobs to a $4000 kitchen remodel.

Help please!
You do have an hourly labor rate... you just don't realize it and based on what you are posting are probably not charging enough to cover it...
Labor
Overhead
Materials
Profit
Believe it or not, below is a crib notes version on this subject, so feel free to ask questions upon review...

For a small business, your annualized fixed and variable costs are contained within Labor and Overhead and will dictate what your hourly rate target should be... your Profit is not what you use to cover these costs... if your husband for example, wants to make $100K/year, without even considering the loaded costs (i.e. - taxes, health ins., W/C. etc.), assuming a 40 hour work week, you are already at $48/hour... This doesn't take into consideration the partner, nor you (you get paid correct?)... but Labor and Overhead costs are where you will come up with an hourly rate, based on a 40 hour work week...

Materials are what materials cost, PLUS you should be adding on a mark-up to cover the costs for getting, handling, and disposing of the material...

Your Profit (i.e. - what you pay your company to develop Capital Reserves / Emergency Fund / Equipment purchases, etc.) is calculate ON TOP OF the Labor, Overhead and Materials at whatever % you've determined.

Now, based on what you posted, let's look at how that translates and how you're most likely not charging enough to be in business... We'll be generous and assume only 3 hours for picking up the water heater =, bringing it to the house, installing it, and disposal...
YOUR NUMBERS
$275- total job cost
$93.19- material
$18.19- 10%
$9.09- 5%
$93.97- husband (60%)
$62.64- friend (40%)

NUMBERS SUBJECT TO ACTUAL COSTS BUT ARE FOR ILLUSTRATION

$482.00
$93.00 - material
$288.00 Labor ONLY, two men, three hours @$100K/year (assuming no loaded costs, and assumes you are being paid nothing) - $96/hour
$57.00 - Overhead (you'll have to determine your annualized costs here, which would include gas, but we'll use your 10% and 5% for gas for now in the example)
$44.00 - This is Profit in this example... what percentage you determine you need is based om your company, but in calculating what that is, you should calculate for a minimum of 3 months of Capital Reserves / Emergency Fund as well as any anticipated equipment purchases...

I know this is a lot of information to digest, but once you get to know your numbers intimately and account for everything, your excel spreadsheet will make more sense... Keep in mind, if you do not have Capital Reserves / Emergency Fund, which is developed from Profit, the ONLY place money shortfalls can come from is DIRECTLY FROM YOUR POCKET and that $100K target gets whittled at and how small companies bleed money... because everyone else still expects to be paid (i.e. - suppliers, subs, insurance, taxes, etc.) and they could care less if you know your numbers or have reserves...

Best of luck... 8^)
So, in your scenario, they should get paid a labor rate even through they are the only workers/owners?

When I read about owners draws, usually quartly, or one big draw at the end of the year, that is from profit only? So they still get a weekly labor check, but only a draw or 2 through the year?
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Old 10-27-2017, 03:46 PM   #9
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Re: Am I Calculating This Correctly?


Quote:
Originally Posted by 480sparky View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zkmconstruction View Post
......... I also can not find much on the type of payouts we do... is there a better way to calculate a job with the set up we have?.............

If this method of payout works for you, run with it.

But I agree with KAP. You're trying to learn to fly because the pilot has passed out. It appears you don't have any real idea what your expenses are. I've got an 8-page list of various expenses that typical construction contractor needs to know. I'll post it if you're interested.

Problem is, many small business owners are slowly bleeding out and they simply don't know it until it's far too late. And too late doesn't mean the wolves are at your door. Too late as meaning it's past the point of redemption and lawyers get involved.

Take some business management classes. Your local community college, SCORE, etc might have some.
Yes, please post. I would love to read it! Also, as of right now, my expenses are in order. We have little as the business is ran out of my house. We have our Insurance, WC and llc and the licenses we need. Accounting software, business banking open, office supplies, credit card used for materials, not much else since it's ran out of home... I assume we already pay our house and utilitys, no reason to add that In. And I do not get paid. I do this for my husband, bc his split of the 60% includes him doing booking also. Since he is gone alot, I just do it for him.

My husband and I have the house, 2 vehicles (truck and car) and the financial means. At the beginning, we purchased a new desktop, a work trailer, paid for LLC and state registration, basically anything start up cost. He specializes in Electrical, but also has knowledge in all areas of construction (worked on various government jobs doing all areas). With the tools needed for all iobs, plus some specialty equipment available for his use when needed. We can also pay out of pocket for materials that were missed during bids (customers usually buy materials).

The partner, started in with us broke, basic hand tools and some drills. He has a lengthy electrical background and experience and some general knowledge in other areas. Not 100% financially stable, no credit. He is the kind to go out on weekends and network and put our name out there.

We do not go out and network, my husband works late, (stays longer than partner when needed bc of kids or other things) and if he isn't not physically working late, we are homebodies, and usually doing the paperwork aspect of the company. (Bids they do about 50% together), banking, invoicing, bookkeeping.) There is also the part that 75% of the time, my husband loads and unloads vehicle before and after a job.


Does a 60/40 split seem fair with the given information?
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Old 10-27-2017, 03:54 PM   #10
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Re: Am I Calculating This Correctly?


Wow!


Sounds like you get the worst end of this deal, unless you're part of the 60%.

The way this is set up, I'd be surprised if the company makes more than a token profit. As a rule, your %free cash flow (we'll say profit to make it easy) funds the growth of the business. You're set up in the single digits, but you're just starting out, so normally you'd be looking for 20% or more.

The excel answer has already been given.
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Old 10-27-2017, 03:59 PM   #11
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Re: Am I Calculating This Correctly?


60/40 split fair? The other guy is basically a worker and salesman. Compare what he makes now to a 5% commission plus usual hourly rate in your area. Is it more or less in line?
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Old 10-27-2017, 04:02 PM   #12
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Re: Am I Calculating This Correctly?


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Old 10-27-2017, 04:34 PM   #13
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Re: Am I Calculating This Correctly?


Quote:
Originally Posted by 480sparky View Post
If this method of payout works for you, run with it.

But I agree with KAP. You're trying to learn to fly because the pilot has passed out. It appears you don't have any real idea what your expenses are. I've got an 8-page list of various expenses that typical construction contractor needs to know. I'll post it if you're interested.

Problem is, many small business owners are slowly bleeding out and they simply don't know it until it's far too late. And too late doesn't mean the wolves are at your door. Too late as meaning it's past the point of redemption and lawyers get involved.

Take some business management classes. Your local community college, SCORE, etc might have some.
I would seriously consider what 480 is saying. You need to slowly but surely get educated on basic bookkeeping and basic accounting. It's not real hard unless you have an aversion to numbers and math.

Get your accounting terminology up to speed so that you, accountants and others are all on the same page.

I worked with small businesses for many (too many) years and saw over 80% belly up within the first 5 years. Some lasted a little longer if they had more money sources to borrow from. And when I say borrow, I meant take the money and not pay it back. The main causes were: Excellent at their trade; not so good at basic business management, accounting, marketing, sales, etc.

Last edited by cwatbay; 10-27-2017 at 04:35 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 10-27-2017, 06:45 PM   #14
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Re: Am I Calculating This Correctly?


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60/40 split fair? The other guy is basically a worker and salesman. Compare what he makes now to a 5% commission plus usual hourly rate in your area. Is it more or less in line?
They are currently out on a job that pays $3525.00.

His 40% would profit him $1078.50

Carpentry labor is 20.81 per hr. For self employed. He has a total of 25 hours which came out to 520 (rounding) and 5% commission is $177.

That way, it would be $694.

Again, they should be partners. My husband who has contributed everything to start this company, gets the 60%. I do not get paid. He is going on 38 hours (And still there alone) and profiting $1550 (rounding).

So given all the extras contributed, all office work, and staying more hours, is a 60/40 split fair? Should hourly be the way to go with both? Or just one?
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Old 10-27-2017, 07:09 PM   #15
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Re: Am I Calculating This Correctly?


Fair is a subjective term. How do they figure their jobs? Do they have an hourly rate? Profit does not equal pay for work performed. Profit is what is left after you pay all expenses...including labor.
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Old 10-27-2017, 07:18 PM   #16
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Re: Am I Calculating This Correctly?


Fair is whatever you all agree on.

50/50, 60/40, 75/25, 99/1.
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Old 10-27-2017, 07:21 PM   #17
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Re: Am I Calculating This Correctly?


Hire a bookkeeper and hit the golf course!


Mike.
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Old 10-27-2017, 08:32 PM   #18
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Re: Am I Calculating This Correctly?


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They are currently out on a job that pays $3525.00.

His 40% would profit him $1078.50

Carpentry labor is 20.81 per hr. For self employed. He has a total of 25 hours which came out to 520 (rounding) and 5% commission is $177.

That way, it would be $694.

Again, they should be partners. My husband who has contributed everything to start this company, gets the 60%. I do not get paid. He is going on 38 hours (And still there alone) and profiting $1550 (rounding).

So given all the extras contributed, all office work, and staying more hours, is a 60/40 split fair? Should hourly be the way to go with both? Or just one?
Only him and his partner can determine what a fair split is.

They need to have this conversation if they are truly partners. A group of guys on the internet can't realistically tell you what a fair split it.

If you think it should be 70/30 or 80/20 bring it up to him

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Old 10-27-2017, 09:20 PM   #19
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Only him and his partner can determine what a fair split is.

They need to have this conversation if they are truly partners. A group of guys on the internet can't realistically tell you what a fair split it.

If you think it should be 70/30 or 80/20 bring it up to him

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Except there are 3 involved now, not 2.

I see a few things headed south with this.
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Old 10-27-2017, 09:29 PM   #20
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....... I do not get paid..........

Strike one.

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