1 Man Versus 1 Crew

EDT

I am still new to the bidding process although I am catching on quickly with information picked up on the web and other sources.

I was toying arround with my 'national estimator' making mok-up bids to see the outcome of cost and i founf some disturbing news that I need some confirmation on.

According to this 'national estimator' program a sole carpenter making 30 dollars an hour will be out-bid by a crew of a carpenter and laborer?

NE takes the hourly rate of a laborer and carpenter, say 15$ plus 30$ adds them together = 45 THEN divides by 2 = $22.50 per hour?

I dont understand this... Why does this program (or any other?) divide by 2 to get an average hourly rate to bid?
Are there any contractors out there with crews who actually bid on jobs using this principal? or do you just get the feel for a crew and there capabilities and bid accordingly? Seems very inaccurate to me.

jmic

Dosen't sound like any practice I would use. I aways figure man hrs. for whoever will be on the job site............. a super - one cost, a foreman - one cost, carpenter - cost, laborer - cost. I don't understand how you could get an actual figure by avg. all these costs, it would bring your total down it seems, maybe I'm wrong.

__________________
___"Remember You Never Get A Second Chance To Make A First Impression"______________________
Joe

Bob Kovacs

Well, if you have a two man crew that's totalling $45/hour, and they can do in 4 hours (8 manhours) what takes you 8 hours to do at $30/hour, of course they're going to be less expensive. The fact of the matter is, however, that that's seldom the case- productivity for a carpenter and a helper is not typically 2x the productivity of a carpenter alone (2 carpenters maybe, but not a carp and a helper).

Forget what the books are telling you, forget what everyone else is telling you- you've got to price jobs according to what your costs are going to be. There will always be someone cheaper, or faster, or better than you- if you spend your life trying to compete with everyone out there, you'll never get anywhere.

Bob

slickshift

There ya go
I hear that

EDT,
Do a search for old threads, it seems those #s in the NatEst don't work for most of us

Gordo

Those numbers are lllllllloooooowwwwwwwwww. I am coming out with a book on how much doctors, lawyers, and accountants should make. Wonder how well that will fly.

__________________
Looks like some pros were here.

skylands

It's my understanding that those figures are based on union labor. So when the book says a C-1 crew is 1 lead man and 2 helpers, then it's assumed that for the 4 hours on the job, you will have to pay the three man crew whether they all worked or not. What's confusing is that the book(s) don't really explain how that "average" works. The book is designed to allow coffee breaks and something in the neighborhood of a 40 minute workhour and everything being done within the 8 hour workday.

Bob Kovacs tells it best without spending the 65 bucks on that book.
You know your own crew so that's the true cost of doing business.

Bill

That is a fine way to do it, but you still have to realize that some people have more overhead than others and no one in their right mind is going to pay more for a trade than what the going rates are for that area. I use a Nat. Est., but let me tell you this, nothing is better than creating your own "Job Tracker" using a spread sheet (I use Excel) I have mine set so every day I come in I can enter the mens names, hours they worked and any fuel or hardware or materials used. It tells me at a glance where I stand on a job, if I am making money, loosing it and exactly where I'm loosing it at. Anyone interested in how I done this I'll be glad to share it, comes in handy when bidding as I can refer back and see what I must do on the next one

__________________
Is it beer thirty yet
Virginia Department of Licensing
Virginia Plumbing Codes

EDT

I gave up on the comparisons. In my own experience i can put out more work than 2 people. Ive worked with some real clock-watchers and people who keep walking back and forth to the saw cutting 1 board at a time. Im just hoping I can out-bid most of my competitors by working solo. The numbers in NE dont seem to think so but they arent taking some important things into account.

asbestos

There will always be someone cheaper, or faster, or better than you- if you spend your life trying to compete with everyone out there, you'll never get anywhere.


-Word I started making money when I stopped worrying about being low cost. I do small jobs only so it is not really a competative bid thing. But I show up on time, do good work and clean up. and don't act like a primate. If someone wants to do this cut rate, fine, I will start to worry when I don't get enough work. I would rather work 4 hours at $50/hour then 9 hours at $25