What's A Reasonable Day's Production

2ndGen

That soooo reminds me of Dexter Saint Jock!

http://www.pp2g.tv/vYHl9Y3E_.aspx


Actually, I just put my brother-in-law and his buddy to work who just got laid off at the plant that they were working.




To me, a Roofer only does Roofing. Once they begin to do everything else, then they become General Contractors (not Roofers who do Siding, etc...).

I've known guys who just do Siding. They'll come in and blow a house out in a day or two (typical 1 family deal).

I know Roofers who do the same with a Roof.

I've learned long ago...the more you focus on one thing, the better and more efficient you become at it (that is "if" you are the one doing the work).

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable."
Ken Hendricks
www.SolutionsRoofing.com

Framer53

<<<<<<<I've known guys who just do Siding. They'll come in and blow a house out in a day or two (typical 1 family deal).>>>>>>>>>

Been there done that!

The more you do the faster and better you should be.

MJW

Like deciding which brand gun to buy every year.

We do all our own work, just licensed as GC.

2ndGen

I keep looking for an excuse to try out a Bosch or Hitachi gun
(I'm such a TOOL WHORE! ), but my frickin' Bostitches WON"T die!

I had one fail me...after having fallen from 3 stories onto a concrete driveway 1 too many times in 35 degree weather, it finally gave out (meaning that it functioned, but it would leave a nail proud every square or so). It's magazine got bent to the side which I unbent with the head of my hatchet and a pry bar and went back to work. I still sold it for $175. I can't cry really.

When it comes to tools, I'm brand promiscuous.
I'm loyal when a brand is good (Bostitch, Bosch, etc...),
but I still keep a roving eye!



.

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable."
Ken Hendricks
www.SolutionsRoofing.com

BamBamm5144

2ndGen, I have found that a lot of homeowners really only want to deal with as few contractors as they have to. That is why we do the exterior as a whole although roofing is our main focus. We have gone quite a few times to fix mistakes made by guys who focus only on siding so I would have to say that saying quality is less by guys who focus on more than one thing is a false statement. Quality only lessens if the person who is doing it just truly doesnt care. Thats my opinion.

2ndGen

Truth be told, even after a quarter of a century of Roofing, I still, if I don't do any physical work for a while, have to get back into the swing of things when I first go back up on a roof.

At first, my "roofing muscles" (those I use mostly just when roofing) have to be reawakened. Then, I have to get warmed up (first day, I work at a leisurely pace). But once I'm loose, I'm flying again.

And, I have to literally work at being "good" again.

My initial cuts (valleys, rakes, etc...) will not be nice and straight.
They'll be straight enough from the ground, but on the roof, it's noticeable.
And I get mad! I get heated! I get frustrated! And I work whatever I was doing until it's nice and straight from on the roof. I just can't let it go.

Again..."roofing muscles".

Thing is, at 40, I get achy when I don't work. I'm probably going to be like my old man. He started getting sick when he retired in his 40's and ended up going back to work (he put in another 25 years on the roof).

But, I have to say this (and this is true), I'm much stronger now than when I was in my 20's or even in my 30's. And I'm not the only one...a lot of Old Timers told me that Roofing is one trade that keeps you strong.

You just have to be smart enough to know when to quit (when your back starts to give out). I have resolved to stop working when it is evident that it's time to put down the gun. But until then, I'm going to milk it for all it's worth. With any luck, I'll have another 25 productive years myself.

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable."
Ken Hendricks
www.SolutionsRoofing.com

2ndGen

Agreed.

"Just because" someone only does siding or roofing or any particular trade, that in and of itself does not guarantee that they are any good at it. One could do something for 25 years and just be doing it wrong for 25 years.

What I've found (for me) is that by concentrating in one field, I streamline my expenses and my crew becomes radically efficient. I know a lot of Roofers who don't like to do Siding and will grudgingly do Gutter work. For me, it's the going from easy work to hard work then back to easy work thing. I'd rather work one way all the time (even if it's hard). I personally don't like to do Siding. And Gutter work is like a day off for me.

I think it's smart to (especially in these days) be diversified. If you already have the insurance for it (Roofing), might as well do lesser dangerous jobs and milk that too. Mo' money, mo' money, mo' money! Plus, you keep a good crew (or crews) busy when Roofing gets light or vice/versa.

It's just not for me. I was Pre-Law before I went into business Roofing. I was born to Roof. I used to think that it was because my father was a Roofer and I fought it (becoming a Roofer myself) and he insisted that I go to college and work my mind (doctor, lawyer, accountant, blah, blah, blah...).

But! I did a "side job" just before heading off to state university.

And I got bit and bit hard.

While my buddies were out chasing tail, I was in my dorm literally drawing trucks with my company name on them and designing my company logo.

After about 6 weeks, I just came back home, sold my Trans Am and got rid of my Miami Vice clothes and bought my first Pick-Up Truck at 19 years old. Designed my own flyers, got licensed and insured and put the 5 years I worked under my father to good use.

But that's just me.

That was my route.

We all have out own paths.

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable."
Ken Hendricks
www.SolutionsRoofing.com

Framer53

Ok, I should have given some qualifiers.
I hate roofing, love siding. I can perform or rather could perform with the best of them.

I found that hiring roofers to roof and siders to side always worked out better.
If you only have one crew, you can't do that. I understand that.
As far as quality being better or less was not the point.

2ndGen

Exactly.

I'd rather have 1 siding crew and 1 roofing crew that are great in their fields than a roofing crew that does siding "ok" or vice/versa.

It is possible for one crew to do both great?

Of course.

But I haven't met that crew yet.



Today (especially in NY), contractors want employees that "do it all" (roofing, masonry, painting, fencing, gutters, windows, siding, etc...). The only ones who do that (generally speaking) are day laborers who bounce from contractor to contractor picking up different skills.

There were times that I just wanted to have a simple job (working for someone else) because I couldn't find good Roofers, so I thought HEY! if good Roofers are so hard to find, I must be worth gold to a smart contractor! But nope...I was overqualified where ever I'd apply. They knew they couldn't dare pay me $10./hour.

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable."
Ken Hendricks
www.SolutionsRoofing.com

Framer53

Good roofers are hard to find, that I guarentee. I used to have 2 that I would ride a little, get up on the roof with them and lay about 4 or 5 squares in an hour or hour and 1/2. What they never figured out was that I would leave and spend a couple of hours relaxing!
Used to irritate them, they never figured out how the boss, who strapped on the tool belt about once a week could beat them.

That being said, I hated roofing. I am 6'7" and it to me was backbreaking.

2ndGen

Me too!

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable."
Ken Hendricks
www.SolutionsRoofing.com

BamBamm5144

2ndGen, I feel like you are an older version of me since your story is basically the same as mine for how you got started. Grandpas did it, uncles did it, dad roofed and brothers do it. I was supposed to be the brains and am still only a few credits away from a degree. Anyways, We use to have one good roofing crew and one good siding crew until things slowed down early this year. Now I am very fortunate to have one good crew that can do both very well and since it took 40 plus guys to find these 4, they get paid well enough not to want to leave.

The "Do-It-All" are the guys who scare me. Not sure why but it seems like they are the Jacks of All Trades and Masters of None types.

While in a recent argument and while I thought about leaving the company I currently work for, although in the future when I learn enough of all aspects of the business I will be taking over (Supposably) I sent out resume after resume and recieved no calls. I still see the same people posting looking for employees. Luckily for me that I did not get a call and have since learned to cool my young temper.

BamBamm5144

Wow Framer, Give me a few inches. That height mustve made it hard but I am sure it helps when you dont have to bring out a ladder for some of the work you do. The owner (my boss) put his belt on last week for the first time since spring and I couldn't understand it. How am I this efficient and this old man can still put the screws to me. Damn near made me want to get off the roof and put the ladder on my truck and go home for the day.

2ndGen

Good stock!




Yep, contractors have to have a revolving door in their shop.

I had to go through a ton of guys myself.

As for your good fortune, I would say that you created that good fortune (paying well is smart).

I tell guys I bring to work I'd rather have mechanics than laborers.
I'd rather pay them twice as much as a laborer if they produced for me.
But, it's hard to find good Roofers.




That's what killed the industry 'round my parts.

And the quality of the roofs and the siding jobs?

Pure garbage.

I'm a jack of one trade...after 26 years, could I call myself a master?

Nahhh. My old man taught me that lesson at 21 when I laid up my first perfect roof. Everything up until then was passable, but I remember calling him and telling him about my first perfectly perfect roof and he told me "See! I told you you don't know everything and you never will! In roofing, you will always be learning. There will always be new systems. Don't ever feel like you've mastered anything."

It's cool having him around to bounce things off of. He still surprises me. I'd think I'd bring up a situation that he possibly can't help me with, and in less than a second after I consult with him, he has the answer. He is a Guru. But he won't let me call him that.



It's hard out there for Roofers (not "guys who do roofing"...big difference).

I had to move to get myself back to work productively.

It's hard for everybody.

But eventually, the cream rises to the top and you'll be in a better place BB.

Just don't ever undervalue yourself.

Keep your pride while staying humble and eventually, fate will either match you with the perfect employer or maybe you'll go out on your own.

Some advice: Work for others as much as you can and learn from their mistakes. While my old man taught me Roofing, he couldn't teach me business (that was my grandfather's specialty and he wasn't around anymore...I guess, I'm sort of a hybrid of my grandpa and my pop). I had to learn myself and the hard way.

Here...read up on this:

http://www.rd.com/make-it-matter-mak...icle44672.html

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2005/54/J389.html

http://www.inc.com/magazine/20061201...hendricks.html

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable."
Ken Hendricks
www.SolutionsRoofing.com

Framer53

I am not able to work long anymore, disabled, but I bet I still could lay some shingles down, you would have to call a crane though, after I collapsed

2ndGen

That's how we do, hey Framer?

Ride them youngin's!

Me and my old man did a roof last year and he STILL rode me like a donkey!

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable."
Ken Hendricks
www.SolutionsRoofing.com

2ndGen

At 6'7", you could just "step off" of the roof!

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable."
Ken Hendricks
www.SolutionsRoofing.com

Framer53

Another thing, age helps, you have learned how to move to be the most efficient.

BamBamm5144

Thanks for all that information. I think I got lucky and have found the perfect company for my current situation and where I plan to be. Like I stated in a different post, the owner was my uncles foreman for years and I was pretty much "his" laborer. At the time I was 19 in college and he offered me more money when he started his own so I went. He taught me everything he knew and finally last year found it time for me to be in a position to make company decisions and SLOWLY take over his duties while finding someone to SLOWLY take over mine. I am very grateful to be in the situation I am in especially since I actually enjoy the work.

As far as knowing everything? I never will. Coming to this website everyday makes me realize there will always be something to learn. That much I have already figured out. I will never undervalue myself. I consider myself to be a different breed of roofer. I am drug and alcohol free, mature for only being in my midish 20's and have a hard work ethic that I have been taught. I think that has a lot to do with my success so far in the trades. Although I am not the owner, I usually find myself thinking about work after work. I am ALWAYS trying to learn more to be better at what I do.

When I see people from high school who ask what I am doing with my life I am embarassed at times because of the bad name we have associated with us. Sort of like what your signature says, I am trying to change that although I doubt it ever will.

Thats why I appreciate advice from you guys who are in different locations who have entirely different points of view and ways to look at things.

Now time to read those articles.

BamBamm5144

I remember when he died, it made pretty big news up here. I was actually at ABC that morning when everyone found out about it. Saw him once but never got a chance to talk to him.