What's A Reasonable Day's Production

Grumpy

1 square per man hour on average for an ez walk 1 layer tear off and put back, like a ranch or something. That's 30 mins t.o. and 30 mins install. 20 squares = 20 man hours. 22 squares divided by 3 men = 1 8 hour day complete. Add a 4th man to clean up trash if you have to haul trash to the dumpster.

Basically the same thing CsCalf said.

AaronB.

I figure 2.5 hours per square, two layers, walkable, start to finish, including details, if there is not too much detail work. More walls and chimenys means more time. Chimney flashings are figured separately and added to the project.

The leader sets the pace. Whether this is you or your employee, only you know.

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johnk

Exactly what I figure

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R.T.Fahey

That size job is tore off in one day and reroofed the next day. Crew of 3.

747

Where i live roofers showup at 7am. They leave when roof is ready for shingles. Also shingles have been delivered and are stacked on the ridge. Next morning there shingling. My neighbor just had a new roof put on his house. He gets a high five. Went with landmark 30's. There the best looking shingles on the market in my oppion. I really like there shadow lines. He must know someone in roofing and requested those. Where i live all the roofers push gaf timberlines which i rank 3rd. Landmark than tamko than gaf. Funny the neighbor next to him had a roof put on last summer went with gaf timberlines. If you look at both roofs the landmarks blow away the timberlines in appearance because of there shadow lines.

J-Peffer

I duno if we could do that, 3 guys, 22 square off and on in 8 hours? Pull in at 6 am, pulling out at 3pm with a 1 hour lunch...

We've done a 30 square, but we had 3 guys tearing off, and an extra guy to shingle. But it was ideal, everything went perfect and the roof was stapled down with really short staples. Did not even need a shovel some of the time, just peel back big sections.

Vince_B

Their production has dropped this summer? In Florida? I've never worked on a roof in the summer in Florida but I'm guessing the heat.

In the real world an hourly three man crew is going to have about 16 hours each on their time cards, so two days.

bmaurice

i noticed something interesting. last week i was as sick as a dog, i was useless labor wise, just their to make sure no one screwed anything up and to give direction. i noticed since i wasnt humping like i usualy do, all the guys were working like a bunch of union workers. no matter how much i told them to pump it up! then friday was my first day where started to feel a lot better. so i fired up my turbo engines, and started to bang **** out . and wouldnt you know i noticed the guys for the first time all week actually working like they had a pair. so next time im sick im just going to give them time off. it wasnt even worth it. not to mention i probably wouldnt be sick for as long if i got a whole day of rest.

kubie

4 of us can do at least 25 sq/day without busting our tails.




guess it depends on how easy the shingles come off.

jstange2

Wow. We've been doing 22-26 sq. hail damage jobs starting at 6:30 in the morning and we are leaving with the ground and gutters cleaner than when we started by 3:00 in the afternoon. Usually 3, sometimes 4 guys.

MJW

That's 9 hours times 3 guys is 27 man hours. Should be able to do 22-26 square rather easy in that time period. 1 man hour per square.

jstange2

Actually 8.5 hours minus a half hour lunch. 8 hours total.

apehangeralfy

There never the same, every one is different... the felt usually takes longer to get off than the shingles... when re-nailing the substrate sometimes the guns will not drive the ring shanks flush so you end up chasing the gun with a hammer... rain can pop up at almost anytime after lunch with no warning...

I would figure it for 2 days off, dried in and metaled... then a day off for inspection... 1 day back on.

This is FLORIDA and right now is the hottest time of the year in one of the hottest states... in never got under 75 degrees last week, you break a sweat getting in the truck in the morning... this is practice for hell!!!!!

Grumpy

What I posted is the production I expect and consistently get on an ez walkable roof time and time again. It's not outside the norm for a crew that roofs every day to have the muscle memory from the constant repititaion to be even faster. On very large jobs our production increases even further, and we can throw down more squares per day than the average 1 per hour. We did a 12/12 church and we were getting better than 1 square an hour on a 12/12, but it was 200+ squares. Lots of open field means you can fly and not have to constantly stop for penetrations or to start a new row etc..

Sure on a really hot or really cold day I do expect production to drop.

AaronB.

Do you guys pull nails, replace flashings, renail the deck, set the proper amount of ventilation and whatnot for those production rates?

What about on plank?

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Grumpy

Yes aaron, you know we do it right, pulling nails is a must. Tuning up the deck is a must. Fixing rotten wood would add to production time of coarse. Although in those production rates chimney and raggled wall flashings are not included. A chimney is a one man hour hour deal. Plank decking (not spaced) may add to the tear off just slightly but not much worth really counting.

At your production rates, you need to hire some shinglers and stick to the low slope yourself If you were shingling 4-5 days a week you'd be much faster than 2-3 man hours per square. I couldn't make money at those production rates.

For the record I am not saying that "I" can bang down a square in 30 mins. I know I can not. I try not to touch tools if I don't have to But I am saying my roofers who shingle every day can easily do it. Shingling is all about repitition, muscle memory, finding a groove and flying with it. Infact it always seems like the job is taking too long until they start shingling, then if you blink you might miss a square go down. The last company I worked for was much faster at tear off than install. My current crew is faster at the install than the tear off, but at the end of the day it all works out the same.

I had a crew that I paid by the hour and I was getting production rates like you Aaron, then I let the guys go because I wasn't making any money. One started his own company (the guy you used once or twice too) and he did a few jobs for me as a sub and I was getting production rates like I am used to. The difference... pay a man by the hour and he slows down. Pay him by the piece and he speeds up. Same man, basically the same roof, twice as fast.... hmmm makes you wonder.

AaronB.

You can fabricate and install a chimney flashing in an hour?

I call Bullsh_t!

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AaronB.

So you can load trucks, setup job, tear off, pull all nails, renail the entire deck, IWS, felt, install shngle system, vents, fabricate and install chimeny flashing, proper ventilation, 60 squares on plank, in out and done 7 guys in one day?

I call BullSh_t.

__________________
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Free roof inspections within 12 miles of our locale.

AaronB.

oh, And take down, travel, and unload? Still call bullsh_t.

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Free roof inspections within 12 miles of our locale.

Grumpy

Aaron, Can "I" fabricate and isntall a chimney flashing in an hour? No,. Maybe 2 hours, maybe 1 1/2 hours. Can it be done? I have had numerous guys who could bend, grind, raggle, install and caulk in an hour flat. You can call bull chit all you want, I'm willing to bet numerous guys here will agree with me. Just count the number of guys above already agreeing: MJW, JohnK, Kubie, CsCalf. This would be a common brick, single flu chimney BTW.

Travel was never included in my math. Travel is always a seperate line item. We're talking installation rates here, not drive time. As for unload, why would you unload if you needed the same tools the next day? There is no load/unload when you do the same thing daily, regardless of what that thing is. Leave it in the truck. Also cutting in a ridge vent is extra too.

First off 60 squares I would not try to tackle in 1 day and a 7 man crew is about the largest I'd ever want to see on a job. I'd prefer the 4 or 5 man crew do the job in 2 days. 60 squares is alot to have open if a freak chance rain comes our way. I know what you're saying now "Ahh but Grumpy you're changing your story now. In 2 days by your math they should do 80 squares." But that's regardless of the argument here. I'm just telling it like it is, I wouldn't ever try for 60 squares in a day. The other question is you said 7 men, no 7 men can not do it but 7 shingle roofers can. Helpers add little value beyond tear off and clean up and staging of material. Therefore I don't have 7 "roofers" so I wouldn't dare try it.

Could it be done? Numbers don't lie man. It IS possible. I was actually chit chatting with my old boss about this thread this morning. He doesn't come to this site, but I was telling him about some other guys production times. He told me one of his guys was banging down 3 squares an hour on a new construction that was already felted.

You're welcome to come watch my guys work one day on the next shingle job. I have one coming up in Glenview next week but it's a 25 square cut-up. I do not expect them to get a square an hour on this one. We just did a 22 square 2 layer ranch tear off last week. 3 men, start 7:30 am, setup tarps ladders etc, 8-8:15 am. Completed tear off and ready for wood inspection by about 11:30 or so. The whole job was completed in 1 working day by 3 men, no chimney was included but we did fabricate a custom fascia intake vent at about 15' of fascia which included removing the gutter and fascia board and remounting them after blocking out the rafters. This was on plywood BTW and the dumpster was directly next to the building. Again this was a 2 layer tear off also. I think they pulled off the job at about 4 PM. That was better than I bid when counting the custom fascia vent and the 2nd layer of tear.

I have another one coming up in about a week week-and-a-half. I'll put my money where my mouth is too if you feel like betting. It's 36 squares, 1 layer tear off. Plus 1.3 square of starter and 1.3 square of hip. Dumpster in the drive way. 5/12 pitch. ridge vent. 3 chimneys. 5 men will have this done in a day most likely 9 hour day, no problem.

Here is another case study. My own home. 24 squares counting hip ridge starters. 1 layer rip 5/12 on planks. There was quite a bit of rotten wood to replace. On the 2nd day all that was left to be done was the chimney flash, kitchen, and bathroom vent. They also tore off the gutters which was a bitch since someone used massive 3" long lag bolts to fasten them in place.

I know it's human nature to lie and exagerate ones accomplishments but what I am saying is not that far off from what many others are saying AND I'm willing to bet on it. Infact I've been wanting a time-lapse camera to put on my job sites to snap a pic ever 30 minutes. I actually wanted it so that I could make a video but it'd prove my point also. Unfortunately none of my cameras have this feature.


Just watch that random shingle crew working in your neighborhood next time you see them. And check their start and stop times. BTW what was Andres banging down for you when he did those couple jobs for you? I know he and his guys are capable of the production I've "claimed" above although their quality leaves something to be desired.