What Is This (white Flat Roof) - PVC Or TPO

coolflatroof · 06-25-2009, 11:22 PM

Hi All.

I went to look at this roof and I think it is PVC, but not sure. Basically, I can do a test weld with either a piece of PVC or TPO, but don't want to drive back there just to determine what it is.

Looking at markings it is a Firestone membrane produced in 96... and installed in 97... now I know that many big roofing companies were already making tpo back than. Base on other data from the picture, can you tell what it is?

I'll appreciate all the help.

Thanks, Leo.

WarriorWithWood · 06-25-2009, 11:36 PM

Looks like TPO to me.

coolflatroof · 06-26-2009, 12:03 AM

Yeah well... it felt (to the touch) like PVC to me... man, you can't judge by the looks... the all look the same... do you know anything about Firestone's markings? Did the do TPO back in 96?

**Ed the Roofer** · 06-26-2009, 12:07 AM

That scrim sure looks a lot like the JP Stevens Hypalon to me, so did FireStone Private Label any Hypalon back then?

Is the underside blue?

Ed

coolflatroof · 06-26-2009, 12:18 AM

Ed, I don't know the color of underside, as the roof is still in one piece and I probably will not be taking it of... just a few patches here and there. I was thinking of welding IB membrane to the spots which needed it, if this stuff is in fact PVC... my testing showed that IB could be welded to other PVCs such as gen-flex (before they were bought out, by Firestone I believe

), sarnifil, etc. so as a repair job it should work just fine.

I'm just being lazy, because it is mare than an hour drive for me, just to test weld...

I think Firestone make / made its own sheet and I actually am not 100% sure what hypalon is / was... (i'm too young for it

) I know it was a disaster... but not much more than that.

As far as scrim - man, IB scrim looks the same to me ... unless you are seeing things I don't.

**Ed the Roofer** · 06-26-2009, 12:26 AM

Nah, your probably right.

Use an edge sealant that you think will bond with any of those membranes just to make sure your patches last until your tail lights leave the premises though.

Ed

coolflatroof · 06-26-2009, 12:35 AM

ha-ha...

Actually ed, i never do use edge sealant .. IB has non-wiking scrim, so it's not needed... the patches that are on this roof already do have sealant though...

BTW, this is not our first job with these people and certainly not the last, so the quality is of the utmost importance too.

Can you quickly tell me about hypalon? I told them it will last at least 5 more years, but will it? there is a "valley" - low area where water sits and some a$$hole roofer use epdm peel-n-stick tape there... so I want to clean it up and weld IB ...

anyway, I will just talk to some single-ply old-timers or will actually call firestone

**Ed the Roofer** · 06-26-2009, 12:59 AM

Hypalon is a CSPE, ChloroSulfinated PolyEthelene, which has weldable characteristics when frshly removed from the bag container, similar to very easily weldable PVC, but cures to an almost rubber like more resilient quality.

http://www.stevensroofing.com/Produc...nsHypalon.html

It's surface material cures from the sun and high temperatures and needs an activation primer and then a liquid hypalon to be brushed on and dried before welding to it.

Mule Hide from ABC is a Private Label Hypalon out of the multiple membrane sheets that Mule Hide offers.

J.P. Stevens is the biggest manufacturer of it, but I believe they were bought out by DuPont several years ago.

One of the larger National prescence roofing contractors that installs Hypalon is D.C. Taylor out of Cedar Rapids, Iowa.

If you can actually weld to it, and try a pull test, where the surface chemicals are still stuck together and only leave the exposed inner core scrim reinforcement, then it is Not a Hypalon.

Ed

outlaw · 06-26-2009, 08:55 AM

I would bet a dime to a dollar that is TPO.

coolflatroof · 06-26-2009, 09:47 AM

Outlaw,

Betting is out of the question... I can bet that it is white epdm, but that is not good enough

I need to know... there are knowledgeable people on this board, and some may know the answer.

Ed, do you know if Cerberus comes to this forum, or just roofing-com?

**Ed the Roofer** · 06-26-2009, 12:56 PM

Cerberus is not a listed member under that user name here and the other guy who would have similar knowledge is BullHart but he is not a regular here, but is a registered member.

It's not a white EPDM though, in my opinion. That was a more expensive product and to buy it as the reinforced version would have made a PVS/TPO decision more meritorious as a financially viable option, in my opinion.

Ed

Gilby · 06-28-2009, 06:19 PM

It looks like J.P Stevens to me

outlaw · 06-29-2009, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilby

It looks like J.P Stevens to me

How can it be J.P. Stevens when it says firestone?

06-25-2009, 11:22 PM	#1
coolflatroof View Profile coolflatroof Roofer with a vision :) Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (202) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Roofer with a vision :) Trade: Flat and Metal Roofing Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: 22 Potomac St. West Roxbury, MA 02132 Posts: 202	What Is This (white Flat Roof) - PVC Or TPO Hi All. I went to look at this roof and I think it is PVC, but not sure. Basically, I can do a test weld with either a piece of PVC or TPO, but don't want to drive back there just to determine what it is. Looking at markings it is a Firestone membrane produced in 96... and installed in 97... now I know that many big roofing companies were already making tpo back than. Base on other data from the picture, can you tell what it is? I'll appreciate all the help. Thanks, Leo. __________________ MA Flat Roofing - Metal Roofing - Roofing Videos Roofing Calculator for Android - free demo. Roofing Calculator for iPhone in App Store now! Roofing Contractors Directory - add your roofing company for free!

06-25-2009, 11:36 PM	#2
WarriorWithWood View Profile WarriorWithWood Tech Geek Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (1,431) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (2) View All Activity Tech Geek Trade: Property Management/Facilities Manager Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Feasterville, Pa. Posts: 1,431	Re: What Is This (white Flat Roof) - PVC Or TPO Looks like TPO to me. __________________ -Dennis www.bowmanch.com

06-26-2009, 12:03 AM	#3
coolflatroof View Profile coolflatroof Roofer with a vision :) Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (202) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Roofer with a vision :) Trade: Flat and Metal Roofing Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: 22 Potomac St. West Roxbury, MA 02132 Posts: 202	Re: What Is This (white Flat Roof) - PVC Or TPO Yeah well... it felt (to the touch) like PVC to me... man, you can't judge by the looks... the all look the same... do you know anything about Firestone's markings? Did the do TPO back in 96? __________________ MA Flat Roofing - Metal Roofing - Roofing Videos Roofing Calculator for Android - free demo. Roofing Calculator for iPhone in App Store now! Roofing Contractors Directory - add your roofing company for free!

06-26-2009, 12:07 AM	#4
Ed the Roofer View Profile Ed the Roofer Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (7,135) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Roofing Contractor Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NW Suburbs of Chicago Posts: 7,135	Re: What Is This (white Flat Roof) - PVC Or TPO That scrim sure looks a lot like the JP Stevens Hypalon to me, so did FireStone Private Label any Hypalon back then? Is the underside blue? Ed __________________ Please Stay Tuned For A Very Important Message From Our Sponsor http://www.rightwayroofingcompany.com/ www.rightwayroofingcompany.com Roof Estimates, Roof Repairs, Roofers, Roof Leak Help, Elgin, Carpentersville, East Dundee, West Dundee, Sleepy Hollow, Algonquin, South Elgin, Huntley, Lake In The Hills, Illinois

06-26-2009, 12:18 AM	#5
coolflatroof View Profile coolflatroof Roofer with a vision :) Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (202) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Roofer with a vision :) Trade: Flat and Metal Roofing Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: 22 Potomac St. West Roxbury, MA 02132 Posts: 202	Re: What Is This (white Flat Roof) - PVC Or TPO Ed, I don't know the color of underside, as the roof is still in one piece and I probably will not be taking it of... just a few patches here and there. I was thinking of welding IB membrane to the spots which needed it, if this stuff is in fact PVC... my testing showed that IB could be welded to other PVCs such as gen-flex (before they were bought out, by Firestone I believe ), sarnifil, etc. so as a repair job it should work just fine. I'm just being lazy, because it is mare than an hour drive for me, just to test weld... I think Firestone make / made its own sheet and I actually am not 100% sure what hypalon is / was... (i'm too young for it ) I know it was a disaster... but not much more than that. As far as scrim - man, IB scrim looks the same to me ... unless you are seeing things I don't. __________________ MA Flat Roofing - Metal Roofing - Roofing Videos Roofing Calculator for Android - free demo. Roofing Calculator for iPhone in App Store now! Roofing Contractors Directory - add your roofing company for free!

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06-26-2009, 12:26 AM	#6
Ed the Roofer View Profile Ed the Roofer Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (7,135) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Roofing Contractor Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NW Suburbs of Chicago Posts: 7,135	Re: What Is This (white Flat Roof) - PVC Or TPO Nah, your probably right. Use an edge sealant that you think will bond with any of those membranes just to make sure your patches last until your tail lights leave the premises though. Ed __________________ Please Stay Tuned For A Very Important Message From Our Sponsor http://www.rightwayroofingcompany.com/ www.rightwayroofingcompany.com Roof Estimates, Roof Repairs, Roofers, Roof Leak Help, Elgin, Carpentersville, East Dundee, West Dundee, Sleepy Hollow, Algonquin, South Elgin, Huntley, Lake In The Hills, Illinois

06-26-2009, 12:35 AM	#7
coolflatroof View Profile coolflatroof Roofer with a vision :) Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (202) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Roofer with a vision :) Trade: Flat and Metal Roofing Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: 22 Potomac St. West Roxbury, MA 02132 Posts: 202	Re: What Is This (white Flat Roof) - PVC Or TPO ha-ha... Actually ed, i never do use edge sealant .. IB has non-wiking scrim, so it's not needed... the patches that are on this roof already do have sealant though... BTW, this is not our first job with these people and certainly not the last, so the quality is of the utmost importance too. Can you quickly tell me about hypalon? I told them it will last at least 5 more years, but will it? there is a "valley" - low area where water sits and some a$$hole roofer use epdm peel-n-stick tape there... so I want to clean it up and weld IB ... anyway, I will just talk to some single-ply old-timers or will actually call firestone __________________ MA Flat Roofing - Metal Roofing - Roofing Videos Roofing Calculator for Android - free demo. Roofing Calculator for iPhone in App Store now! Roofing Contractors Directory - add your roofing company for free!

06-26-2009, 12:59 AM	#8
Ed the Roofer View Profile Ed the Roofer Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (7,135) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Roofing Contractor Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NW Suburbs of Chicago Posts: 7,135	Re: What Is This (white Flat Roof) - PVC Or TPO Hypalon is a CSPE, ChloroSulfinated PolyEthelene, which has weldable characteristics when frshly removed from the bag container, similar to very easily weldable PVC, but cures to an almost rubber like more resilient quality. http://www.stevensroofing.com/Produc...nsHypalon.html It's surface material cures from the sun and high temperatures and needs an activation primer and then a liquid hypalon to be brushed on and dried before welding to it. Mule Hide from ABC is a Private Label Hypalon out of the multiple membrane sheets that Mule Hide offers. J.P. Stevens is the biggest manufacturer of it, but I believe they were bought out by DuPont several years ago. One of the larger National prescence roofing contractors that installs Hypalon is D.C. Taylor out of Cedar Rapids, Iowa. If you can actually weld to it, and try a pull test, where the surface chemicals are still stuck together and only leave the exposed inner core scrim reinforcement, then it is Not a Hypalon. Ed __________________ Please Stay Tuned For A Very Important Message From Our Sponsor http://www.rightwayroofingcompany.com/ www.rightwayroofingcompany.com Roof Estimates, Roof Repairs, Roofers, Roof Leak Help, Elgin, Carpentersville, East Dundee, West Dundee, Sleepy Hollow, Algonquin, South Elgin, Huntley, Lake In The Hills, Illinois

06-26-2009, 08:55 AM	#9
outlaw View Profile outlaw Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (291) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: roofing,siding,gutters,windows Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: VIRGINIA Posts: 291	Re: What Is This (white Flat Roof) - PVC Or TPO I would bet a dime to a dollar that is TPO. __________________ www.clarkroofingandsiding.com

06-26-2009, 09:47 AM	#10
coolflatroof View Profile coolflatroof Roofer with a vision :) Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (202) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Roofer with a vision :) Trade: Flat and Metal Roofing Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: 22 Potomac St. West Roxbury, MA 02132 Posts: 202	Re: What Is This (white Flat Roof) - PVC Or TPO Outlaw, Betting is out of the question... I can bet that it is white epdm, but that is not good enough I need to know... there are knowledgeable people on this board, and some may know the answer. Ed, do you know if Cerberus comes to this forum, or just roofing-com? __________________ MA Flat Roofing - Metal Roofing - Roofing Videos Roofing Calculator for Android - free demo. Roofing Calculator for iPhone in App Store now! Roofing Contractors Directory - add your roofing company for free!

06-26-2009, 12:56 PM	#11
Ed the Roofer View Profile Ed the Roofer Pro Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (7,135) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Pro Trade: Roofing Contractor Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NW Suburbs of Chicago Posts: 7,135	Re: What Is This (white Flat Roof) - PVC Or TPO Cerberus is not a listed member under that user name here and the other guy who would have similar knowledge is BullHart but he is not a regular here, but is a registered member. It's not a white EPDM though, in my opinion. That was a more expensive product and to buy it as the reinforced version would have made a PVS/TPO decision more meritorious as a financially viable option, in my opinion. Ed __________________ Please Stay Tuned For A Very Important Message From Our Sponsor http://www.rightwayroofingcompany.com/ www.rightwayroofingcompany.com Roof Estimates, Roof Repairs, Roofers, Roof Leak Help, Elgin, Carpentersville, East Dundee, West Dundee, Sleepy Hollow, Algonquin, South Elgin, Huntley, Lake In The Hills, Illinois

06-28-2009, 06:19 PM	#12
Gilby View Profile Gilby Member Send Message Follow Blogs (0) Threads (77) Photos (0) Reviews (0) Projects (0) Toolbox (0) View All Activity Member Trade: Roofing Contractor Join Date: May 2009 Location: NW, OH Posts: 77	Re: What Is This (white Flat Roof) - PVC Or TPO It looks like J.P Stevens to me __________________ \

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