Weaving Valleys

 
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Old 03-24-2006, 08:46 AM   #1
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Weaving Valleys


Morning,
Need advice on weaving some valleys on a 4/12, and 7/12 roof. Im going to be using GAF Timberline 40yr laminated shingle and want to weave the valleys, but was told by a GAF rep that I shouldn't use this method on these shingles. He said there too heavy, and wouldn't lay into the valley properly, and there would be a void under the shingles at the valley, and if walked on could cause problems.

He suggested doing a closed cut valley. But homeowner doesn't like the look of the cut edge.

Has anyone done a woven valley with the laminated shingles, and had any problems?

Thanks, Tommy
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Old 03-24-2006, 08:58 AM   #2
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Re: Weaving Valleys


You never step in or near the valley reguardless of the shingle.

He is right about the thicker arcs and conv. standing at the lip. It looks like crap from the ground. Most lay down adventually but you better be a good installer and know how to fold your weave good. (just in case) I'm calling the proper presure application a fold here, don't go folding the shingle. (no offense intended)

Another point, 7 to 4 will climb on one side. If they don't like the California Cut, talk them into tin.

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Last edited by Glasshousebltr; 03-24-2006 at 09:03 AM.
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Old 03-24-2006, 09:34 AM   #3
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Re: Weaving Valleys


Walking in the valley is the easiest thing to do on a steep roof. Sure your feet are a good 2-3' apart so you are not putting pressure into the bend of the valley.

I can't see how any shingle would look good in a woven valley that has a pitch change. Like Glass said, one side will climb.

Sell the customer open copper valleys. Make the manufacturer look like the bad guy for the upsell. I sell my copper W valleys at $12 a linear foot.

The manufacturer is the authority on their product and if they tell me not to do something, I don't do it.
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Old 03-24-2006, 10:23 AM   #4
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Re: Weaving Valleys


Thank you Gentlemen,

The advice is taken and appreciated. I agree with the esteemed Grumpy, do what the manufacturer advises.

Thanks, Tommy
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Old 03-24-2006, 06:37 PM   #5
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Re: Weaving Valleys


Just got done doing a job that the customer wanted woven valleys. We didn't weave them though. We use colored valleys, run a shingle up on the valley tin tight to the W. The tar on the back of the shingle seals to the metal. Then run the shingles in steppping them up the roof. This way there is no cutting and no chance of mistakes.
BTW, customer was happy and liked the way it looks. Got 3 other jobs from him already.
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Old 03-25-2006, 12:32 PM   #6
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Re: Weaving Valleys


I never have and will never weave a valley not matter the pitch or the shingles.

To install open valleys correctly ice and water over the metal is a good idea as well as a bead of tar under the shingles a few inches back from the cut especially on a low pitched roof.
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Old 03-25-2006, 01:28 PM   #7
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Re: Weaving Valleys


I agree with the ice&water on the valley tin, but it's not needed with my method. Still a better idea to me rather than installing under the valley tin.
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Old 03-25-2006, 06:09 PM   #8
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Re: Weaving Valleys


My Uncle works for Rotlund homes and his required method of valley installation is as fallows,

First ice and water is to be wrapped on the corners board at the bottom of the valleys, next drip edge is to be installed on the eaves and 6 ft on the rakes. Ice and water is put down the valleys and the house is felted after running ice and water to code up the eaves of course (pictures).

Pre-form valley metal is next installed and a full piece of ice and water shield is laid down on each side of the valley (more pictures). If more than one valley is used silicone is used between each piece of metal. The shingles are run up the valley and cut on each side then a bead of caulk is installed on each side.

All of the vents have to be caulked around as well.
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Old 03-25-2006, 06:10 PM   #9
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Re: Weaving Valleys


Quote:
Originally Posted by MJW
I agree with the ice&water on the valley tin, but it's not needed with my method. Still a better idea to me rather than installing under the valley tin.
You need ice and water under the metal valley flashing.
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Old 03-26-2006, 09:04 AM   #10
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Re: Weaving Valleys


Quote:
Originally Posted by dougger222
You need ice and water under the metal valley flashing.
Ya think so?? Of course. I was just saying it makes more sense on top onstead of underneath.
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Old 03-26-2006, 09:06 AM   #11
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Re: Weaving Valleys


Quote:
Originally Posted by dougger222
The shingles are run up the valley and cut on each side then a bead of caulk is installed on each side.

All of the vents have to be caulked around as well.
I hope the caulking is under the shingles in the valleys. I see no pictures.
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Old 03-26-2006, 10:06 AM   #12
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Re: Weaving Valleys


WOW that is a lot of detail for a valley
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Old 03-26-2006, 10:09 AM   #13
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Re: Weaving Valleys


Hey, thats our style, makin something out of nothing.

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Old 03-26-2006, 10:22 AM   #14
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Re: Weaving Valleys


hey if you charge by the foot its a great detail should last a life time
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Old 03-26-2006, 10:50 AM   #15
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Re: Weaving Valleys


Quote:
Originally Posted by dougger222
I never have and will never weave a valley not matter the pitch or the shingles.

To install open valleys correctly ice and water over the metal is a good idea as well as a bead of tar under the shingles a few inches back from the cut especially on a low pitched roof.
I disagree with the caulk underthe shingles on a metal valley. As we all know, shingles are a water shedding system. If done properly, you will not need , nor want to seal your shingles to the meal. We all know about expansion and contraction, and also know that you want your metal valley free to move as it neeeds to, independently of the shingles tieing into it.
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Old 03-26-2006, 10:55 AM   #16
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Re: Weaving Valleys


Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronB.
I disagree with the caulk underthe shingles on a metal valley. As we all know, shingles are a water shedding system. If done properly, you will not need , nor want to seal your shingles to the meal. We all know about expansion and contraction, and also know that you want your metal valley free to move as it neeeds to, independently of the shingles tieing into it.
It helps on a low pitch valley. If using laminate shingles and they are cut down the valleys, there are voids on every shingle. This is why I do my valleys differently. Look at the voids next time you cut down a valley with laminate shingles.
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Old 03-26-2006, 11:33 AM   #17
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Re: Weaving Valleys


Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronB.
I disagree with the caulk underthe shingles on a metal valley. As we all know, shingles are a water shedding system. If done properly, you will not need , nor want to seal your shingles to the meal. We all know about expansion and contraction, and also know that you want your metal valley free to move as it neeeds to, independently of the shingles tieing into it.
Perhaps I used the wrong word, tar under the shingles in the valleys and caulk were the shingles are cut.

Unless I do a valley on a 3/12 I use no tar or caulk.

My Uncle who works for Rotlund Homes has to do the valleys the way I outlined in a previous post.
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Old 03-26-2006, 11:39 AM   #18
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Re: Weaving Valleys


Let me take a moment to explain the strangest valley I've ever done.

The home owner was a very wealthy builder/developer/lumber yard owner who was dead set on what he wanted. His previous home had thick shingles and didn't like the California style valleys the roofers used in the valleys and he didn't want metal exposed. The two homes he was builder side by side (one for him 80 years old, the other for his brother widowed wife). The main part of the house was 6/12 with a dormer on the back and the garage was a 8/12 with two large dormers on the front of the house were the garage tied in. The shingles for both jobs were Certaineed Hallmarks. Here is what I did on both houses on the instructions of the home owner. First I laid ice and water in the valleys and weaved the felt in the valleys. Next I put a 36in wide roll of aluminum down the valley and a 36in wide roll of 240lb roofing material. After putting three beads of tar up each side of the valley I was ready to cut my shingles down the center of the valley. When the other side of the valley was done three more beads of tar and another cut this time right next to the other shingles so there was no gap. Both homes were done this way and 6 years later not one leak.

BTW, it was a mess!!!
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Old 03-26-2006, 01:10 PM   #19
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Re: Weaving Valleys


What did you use as a 240 roll of roofing material?
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Old 03-26-2006, 04:01 PM   #20
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Re: Weaving Valleys


Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronB.
What did you use as a 240 roll of roofing material?
Not sure the name but it was basicly like a shingle in a 36 in wide roll. Very heavy and pieces were cut on the ground and carried up the roof. Thinking they either came in 25 or 50 foot rolls but not sure anymore.

All the steps made for overkill but it worked.

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