thought I'd ask the experts, need advice - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

11-17-2003, 11:43 PM

We thought we did everything right in choosing a contractor for the roof. Moderate bid, BBB member, seen his other work. Signed contract. I don't know what happened in our case. We had the roof done, tear-off and name brand dimensional shingle. It looked odd from the beginning. Contractor sent the bill two days after and said it was complete, just needed a few things. We said we had concerns. Contractor said the shingles would lie flat in a week or two. We then hired an independent bldg inspector. He said everything was done wrong. Nails were overdriven, underdriven, shingles were overlapped (he hadn't seen anything quite like our roof), nails were too high, too low. We haven't paid. Even had the shingle rep out to take a look. The shingles are fine. After hearing what the shingle rep had to say, now he's willing to work with us, "needs some improvement". Make a list and he'll fix it. I want to believe he'll do right by us. But the original job is awful. After two inspections, one we paid for and one done by the shingle company, it's clear the roof is unacceptable and needs to be completely redone from the plywood. He wasn't on-site for the job, just ran in and out briefly. But he came back to see the roof several times, each time he assured us everything was done fine and it was the shingles that needed time to lay down.

What do you think? What would a roofer recommend?

pgriz · 11-18-2003, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered

We thought we did everything right in choosing a contractor for the roof. Moderate bid, BBB member, seen his other work. Signed contract. I don't know what happened in our case. We had the roof done, tear-off and name brand dimensional shingle. It looked odd from the beginning. Contractor sent the bill two days after and said it was complete, just needed a few things. We said we had concerns. Contractor said the shingles would lie flat in a week or two. We then hired an independent bldg inspector. He said everything was done wrong. Nails were overdriven, underdriven, shingles were overlapped (he hadn't seen anything quite like our roof), nails were too high, too low. We haven't paid. Even had the shingle rep out to take a look. The shingles are fine. After hearing what the shingle rep had to say, now he's willing to work with us, "needs some improvement". Make a list and he'll fix it. I want to believe he'll do right by us. But the original job is awful. After two inspections, one we paid for and one done by the shingle company, it's clear the roof is unacceptable and needs to be completely redone from the plywood. He wasn't on-site for the job, just ran in and out briefly. But he came back to see the roof several times, each time he assured us everything was done fine and it was the shingles that needed time to lay down.

What do you think? What would a roofer recommend?

I'm guessing that the contractor subbed the installation and didn't do his homework on whether this sub-contractor knew his stuff.

Let me read between the lines. "Moderate bid" -> salesman/contractor knows what people will pay. BBB member -> body is breathing, Doesn't mean much from a quality point of view as some of the really bad roofers I know are also members in the BBB and they don't get sanctioned. "Seen his other work" -> he showed you the work done by his "A" team. "Signed Contract" -> good, but I would look at it as a basic requirement. From the information you've given, the contractor appears to be on the up and up (more or less), but had used a bad crew, and is looking for time to get them to come back and fix it ("shingles need time to lay down" -> I need time to find the crew and figure out how to get them to come back!).

It's a little to late to start wondering how to prevent the eggs from breaking when you already have an omlette. Your contractor owes you a good roof properly done. He needs to send you his "A" team, and have them re-do the roof. He's probably trying to get the original crew to come back and do it so that he's not out of pocket, but I suspect they won't come back, so he will have to pay another team to re-do it. If he has to do this, he'll probably be losing money on your installation, so I'm guessing he's trying to figure out how to get out of the mess.

Am I off base on this?

**Floorwizard** · 11-18-2003, 04:01 PM

It sounds like you got it all wrapped up in a nice nutshell pgriz.
I wonder if these contractors deserve a chance to fix their mistake. I know here in the floorig biz, I give the guys a chance to correct their mistakes before calling in a better team ( your right, it will save the guy some money to get the same guys) and they probably deserve another chance, but what if they cannot be found? How long does a client have to wait till a new crew MUST be brought in. I do not have this problem because we sub out to the same guys over and over so I have no trouble finding them, but I may be in this situation someday, and I want to know thoughts on this.

Grumpy · 11-18-2003, 05:28 PM

No matter what things can sometimes go wrong. I always tell people "It's how you handle your mistakes that makes a good contractor."

Chances are your contractor hired an unskilled team to do the work. A contractor is only as good as his installers.

I am a roofer and I will say that shingles don't lay flat right away. They do take a few days of 40 or higher temprature to lay flat. If the nails are over driven be prepared for the wind to take the shingles away. If the nails are not driven deep enough then the overlaping shingle will never lay flat.

First off call a lawyer, his advice is worth more than mine; but this is my advice: Don't pay your bill until you are satisfied. Inform the contractor you intend on paying him when you are satisfied but this is not acceptable. If you paid a down payment, get a partial waiver of lien.

After all this is done, give the guy a few more days. Send him a registered letter stating that you have no intention of paying for this roof. It is his responsiblity to fix it. If he does not come out and totally replace the roof within the next 10 days, you will hire someone to do it at his expense. In this letter be very clear that you will notify your attorney general and his better busines bureau, his chamber of commerce and any other affiliation he may have, IF he chooses not to correct his mistake. If he is legit the last thing he wants is these things hanging over his head.

Everyone deserves a chance to fix their mistakes.

I'd be happy to discuss how to deal with this from the contractor's point of view, Flor, but that may be for another post

hatchet · 11-18-2003, 11:39 PM

On a certified letter or any written material for that matter - be ready to back up your claim in a court of law. Don't make bogus claims just because you want to scare them. Don't get me wrong I totally agree with the advice - just something to remember. Keep it very professional and to the point.

Grumpy · 11-19-2003, 09:01 AM

Yes I agree with hatchet about that, but I hought that goes woithout saying

Anything you ever write, always assume it will be used against you in a court of law.

hatchet · 11-19-2003, 06:07 PM

You'd be surprised by stories I've heard of someone sending someone else a flame letter thinking it was going to get something done when it only fueled the fire and ended up costing them money.. and most of those never went to court.

kchr · 10-12-2005, 08:41 PM

Hi

I have a question regarding reframing a mansard roof from the inside. When facing the house. the front right side. rt side window starts the damage area where its missing the lower vertical board approximately 1 1/2 - 2'. the gutter "I guess" is strong enough to support several people to walk on. I would estimat approx.10-12 feet of it needs replacing. I estimated it at $1500-$2000. Can reframing that portion of the roof doable from the inside. PICTURE (third floor front room lt corner. with the left wall exposing the portion of roof damaged) Thanks

747 · 10-13-2005, 04:39 AM

I feel sorry for the guy. My roof turned out excellent. But the guy i hired was up there with his A team from start to finish.

mighty anvil · 10-13-2005, 04:56 PM

It is very smart to talk to a lawyer but don't mention to the roofer that you are "represented" or threaten legal action unless the lawyer advises you to do so. A good lawyer will try to help you avoid starting an expensive exchange of letters between lawyers. Hatchet is right, everything you say or do will be used against you later if a court gets involved. Figure out what you can realistically get and settle asap. I would strongly favor a different crew if that is possible even if it costs more. In the end you want to feel good about the quality of the roof because its your home. Good luck.