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Standing Seam Mfg Question

 
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Old 10-13-2017, 12:30 PM   #1
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Standing Seam Mfg Question


I am considering installing a standing seam system without exposed fasteners. I've seen a few different products at trade shows (Drexel, Fabral) but I'd be curious to hear what folks think of some of these products.

What does the difference in thickness/gauge get you?

What does the difference in width of panels/height of seam mean?

Do all systems have a similar order of installation? (Drip edge, Rake trim, Panels and then Z closures?)

Are all the non-exposed fastener systems similar in terms of installation?

Sorry for the vague questions, I've been splitting firewood all morning...
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Old 10-20-2017, 03:42 AM   #2
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Re: Standing Seam Mfg Question


Quote:
Originally Posted by jb9 View Post
I am considering installing a standing seam system without exposed fasteners. I've seen a few different products at trade shows (Drexel, Fabral) but I'd be curious to hear what folks think of some of these products.

What does the difference in thickness/gauge get you?
There may be a benefit to 24g over 26g be less likely st telegraph slight deck irregularities or oil canning. From a practical service life, either one would likely have the paint fail before the metal.

What does the difference in width of panels/height of seam mean?
You will probably see offerings of 1" and 1-1/2" seam height. Traditional mechanically locked seams are superior to any snaplock seam, but snaplock seams are perfectly adequate for many installations. I would like to see a 5/12 pitch or greater before considering a snaplock. Width has mostly to do with appearance. 15"-17" pan width works pretty well for my eye. Wider or narrower can look too big or too busy IMO.

Do all systems have a similar order of installation? (Drip edge, Rake trim, Panels and then Z closures?)


Are all the non-exposed fastener systems similar in terms of installation?

Different manufacturers will have slightly different details in the installation instructions, but the systems share the basic procedures

Sorry for the vague questions, I've been splitting firewood all morning...
A good installation of a standing seam roof could last 100 years, but I don't know of any paint or finish coat that will hold up that long. Experience tells me that a Kynar finish is more durable than SMP (silicon modified polyester). That's worth a little research.

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Old 10-24-2017, 11:59 AM   #3
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Re: Standing Seam Mfg Question


Thanks Mr Latrone. I think I may go with a 16" wide 24 gauge panel with a striated profile for durability. Also, from what I have learned, it looks like the order of operations for a simple (no dormers) roof would be as follows:

-Eave trim / Drip Edge (with corners folded around the rake)
-Panels
-Rake trim overlapping the drip edge folds
-Z closures on rake
-Z closures on peak
-Ridge Cap

Does this sound reasonable?
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Old 10-25-2017, 04:15 AM   #4
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Re: Standing Seam Mfg Question


Sounds about right.

Z on the rake before the actual rake trim. I think I have seen some mfg who spec the rake closure (Z) be attached to the panel before the panel is installed.

Z closure and universal rake trim aren't my preference, but they do provide a catalog part to address rake edges. I use the same profile metal on the drip and the rake so no Z or special rake trim. The panels are hemmed around the drip edge and the rake edge. It's a cleaner, low profile look IMO. Bending a long hem up a rake edge takes a bit more effort and possibly additional tools, so the catalog solution might be the only choice for some.

You might find someone local to you who has a portable rollformer. Some will come to your site and roll panels for you. If someone comes to me and wants a material package, I would provide it complete with some instructions

What's your location?
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Old 10-25-2017, 08:40 AM   #5
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Re: Standing Seam Mfg Question


What does the difference in thickness/gauge get you?
Thicker gauge means less "oil canning" and metal to metal fasteners will hold better.

What does the difference in width of panels/height of seam mean?
A wider panel shows more "oil canning" and will have less "clip" fasteners between the seams.
Taller seam height gets the lap up out of the snow and water a little higher.

Do all systems have a similar order of installation? (Drip edge, Rake trim, Panels and then Z closures?)
There are huge variations in the design of standing seam systems, hard question to answer.

Are all the non-exposed fastener systems similar in terms of installation?
See above ... huge variations.


I've done a lot of them. My favorite is a simple 16" wide flat pan type panel with 2" tall vertical ribs. Brands I have used a lot of are Butler VSR and MBCI Battenlok. Nice thing about the vertical rib, flat panels is that you don't have end closures in the panel joints to worry about and flashing at hips and valleys is much easier.
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Old 10-25-2017, 05:08 PM   #6
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Re: Standing Seam Mfg Question


hmm...
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Old 10-26-2017, 02:33 PM   #7
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Re: Standing Seam Mfg Question


Thanks Mr. Latone. I think you are right that using the same "eave -- drip edge" style profile along the rake would result in a cleaner look. It seems like this method would take less time to install (but would require a hem along the long dimension of the panel). I going to take a look at the Butler and MBCI products too. Thanks Fishindude.

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Old 10-28-2017, 09:18 PM   #8
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Re: Standing Seam Mfg Question


I have a question to tag on to this thread before it disappears.

I've install several vertical seam roofs and always use z-closures for the ridges. For a long time I've seen the panels w/ the built in clips have a hip/ridge cap that is installed before the roof and you just fold the back of the panel and slide it up there.

I prefer the 1.5" ribs w/ the separate cleats. Now I have a supplier that has that same type of hip/ridge for this system. How are the panels actually panned to the roof? With the built in clip, you can just screw one or two in tight at the top below the ridge, but with the separate cleat you can't really do that.

Am I the only one that finds this to be a problem?
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Old 10-29-2017, 12:07 PM   #9
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Re: Standing Seam Mfg Question


Quote:
Originally Posted by jb9 View Post
I am considering installing a standing seam system without exposed fasteners. I've seen a few different products at trade shows (Drexel, Fabral) but I'd be curious to hear what folks think of some of these products.

What does the difference in thickness/gauge get you?

What does the difference in width of panels/height of seam mean?

Do all systems have a similar order of installation? (Drip edge, Rake trim, Panels and then Z closures?)

Are all the non-exposed fastener systems similar in terms of installation?

Sorry for the vague questions, I've been splitting firewood all morning...
Get a roofer that installs metal roof to install the roof... you will be happy you did.
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Old 10-29-2017, 01:31 PM   #10
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Re: Standing Seam Mfg Question


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Originally Posted by dDubya View Post
I have a question to tag on to this thread before it disappears.

I've install several vertical seam roofs and always use z-closures for the ridges. For a long time I've seen the panels w/ the built in clips have a hip/ridge cap that is installed before the roof and you just fold the back of the panel and slide it up there.

I prefer the 1.5" ribs w/ the separate cleats. Now I have a supplier that has that same type of hip/ridge for this system. How are the panels actually panned to the roof? With the built in clip, you can just screw one or two in tight at the top below the ridge, but with the separate cleat you can't really do that.

Am I the only one that finds this to be a problem?
I have been doing this standing seam thing for a while and I would have the same question. I suppose it would be possible to take a sliding cleat and somehow afix it to the panel near the ridge or hip. I don't see how the "j" pocket hip and ridge woud be as weather tight as a Z closure, but it might be "good enough" depending on the underlayment.

It seems there is often a reduction in the ultimate breaking point (can't think of the term, but designed to handle a certain level of weather before the system is compromised) every time one of these systems is modified. "Z" closure are not as tight as mechanically locked hip and ridge. Now we have to rely on "j" pockets, which are not as tight as "Z" closures.

It seems like the Walmart solution to standing seam. Everything should be available to everyone. Too bad it's all done for appearances with very little integrity left in the actual product.

Maybe I am over blowing the whole thing. Maybe a snap lock with "j" pocket terminations will last just as long. Maybe caulk has the same staying power as the metal it seals.
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Old 10-29-2017, 02:29 PM   #11
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Re: Standing Seam Mfg Question


i think i have seen an endwall J detail where the back leg was hemmed to receive a corresponding tongue notched on the panel,it was filled with sealant before the panel is slid in
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Old 10-29-2017, 02:33 PM   #12
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Re: Standing Seam Mfg Question


Good post. I don't like the panels w/ the built in screw strip, but I can at least see how they aren't going to slide right off the roof with a large snow load.

I have a 5/12 & 8/12 hip roof coming up that I wouldn't mind running the J-ridge, but it just seems a bit wrong without something fastening the top in place. I can't say I won't be tempted to use the built-in cleat panel w/ J-ridge on the next steep one we sell.

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