Selling

BamBamm5144

Out of curiosity, do any of you guys do the "Good, Better, Best" selling and let the consumer make the choice or do you only go in with one brand and only push that one brand?

PA woodbutcher

Almost always. I say almost because the last roof bid I did, I only gave the best, because the 2 referrals that he had given chose the best.

He was "shocked"................. Whatever

When I give a good, better and best, the majority of customers choose the better because they can see the value of their dollar.

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nlgutters

We tried it for awhile. We decided it wasnt worth it. You cant get everyone.

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Grumpy

I sorta do a good better best but too many options can confuse a customer. I do a base, green/best and warranty upgrade. Let me explain... What ever shingle the customer and I discuss becomes the base, usually a 30 year architectural. Then as a standard line item I always give an upgrade to the Solaris "green" shingle and another option to upgrade to the cetainteed 5 star sure start.

Sometimes I will throw in a premium/luxury shingle but not that often. The options I give are based upon the discussion I have with the customer in their house with my photo book and manufacturer brochures. At the end of the day, I am going to price what shingle they want... but I feel that focusing on the shingle as your good better best is a flawed method when the whole system and warrantys matter more than the shingle style being used.

Slyfox

I operate on the same concept, meaning, I offer a standard 30 year roofing system 'which brand/style is optional', than upgrade from there.

People love the idea of upgrading, the easier you make the process for them, the more likely they'll do so.

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Grumpy

The sales Gurus will tell you to offer your highest price first. The sales gurus will offer the rationalization that it's easier to give money than it is to ask for it, meaning they suggest you downgrade if someone balks at your price. I prefer the lay out the menu ala-carte and let the customer build the solution that fits their needs. However at the same time too many options can become confusion. That's why the options I lay out on the menu will be a direct result of my conversation with the customer.

While going full-boat and then downgrading fits with some, it doesn't fit my selling style. I prefer to go mid-grade and offer upgrades. I can also go backwards too since my initial offering is in the middle.

BamBamm5144

I have been kicking around the idea to do it. Not really a good, better or best but rather two choices of brands, one which I feel is better and then from there, upgrades in interested.

I finally got everything all squared away with Certainteed so now I can offer the same warranties from both GAF and Certainteed.

The one problem I think I will have is trying to explain to customers why I feel certainteed is a better brand than Gaf when it is actually cheaper and because a lot of people around here know of the lawsuit situation which still makes them question the product.

Grumpy

Why give a brand as an option? I show people brochures from Tamko and Certainteed. Same price, pick the color you like the best. Unless you are gonna sell chitty IKO's or something, I toyed around with that idea, but decided I didn't want to inherit the problems, and no other shingle is cheap enough to offer as a discounted shingle.

If that's the case have you thought about running a "sale" or putting together a coupon http://reliableamerican.us/coupons.html see the IKO coupon? Look at the dates on the coupons by the way. I very seldom ever run sales.


I use the lawsuit situation as a good thing, because well it is. Compared to other manufacturers CertainTeed wasn't getting sued because they were not honoring the warranty. certainTeed was honoring the warranty. They got sued because people didn't like the warranty they bought and were too dumb to read the warranty documentation before they bought. Yes the shingles did fail, and CertainTeed made it right. Every manufacturer of just about any product ever manufactured will be sued at one point in time in this country, that's the kind of society we are. GAF has their suit a few years back.

The other thing to point out about the lawsuit is the details. CertainTeed was being sued ONLY for the failed organic Sealdon. Sealdons, and organics have not been manufactured since 2005 (or sooner). The Landmarks which are fiberglass reinforced were not a part of the law suit. Then at the end of the day if they balk, you have another shingle to offer. That's why I offer two brands.

certainTeeds are cheaper up by you? Home Depot has GAF's for $20 a square less (last time I looked which was months ago) than the Landmarks at my roofing supplier.

BamBamm5144

Grumpy - I don't purchase the Natural Shadow line of shingles so Home Depot is of no use to me. They are about 6 dollars a square cheaper at my local supplier. As you mentioned, the law suit thing has its positives and negatives. I can use it as a selling point considering how they handled the problem.

I want to give people the option. I have lost more than one job because the homeowner wanted to go with a different brand of shingle and "assumed" I would not install the other one.

As I said, I just want to give people two options, why I support both of them, why I think they will be happy with either choice and then from there, see if they want an upgrade.

dougger222

All my bids are for a standard Landmark 30 year shingle. While meeting in person I hint if they are interested in an upgrade and show them little peaks in the book of the higher end shingles. If they say no way I leave it that. If they are talked into getting a bid for an upgrade I do that.

More often than not they get one price for a base Landmark roof. With the economy were it's at and the high cost of 30 year Landmarks it's been a slower than normal year selling upgrades. In recent years one out of every five roofs were upgrades.

This year we did one Landmark TL and nothing planned yet for the rest of the year.

When you are on average the highest bidder and trying to sell them on quality and such it's tough to jump way up in price with an upgraded shingle.

MJW

In reality, in the "hail belt" areas, what's the point? If I was the customer I would get a 30 year shingle and try to get a fair price for a fair job. I would also make sure they were local. No salesman will be able to talk anyone with a brain into anything because they will be replaced within 10 years anyhow.

With the work I have seen lately from the bigger companies around, it's rather simple to beat them on quality and craftsmanship. Their subs are terrible.

30 year laminates are 95% of our roofing sales, if not more. Then again, there aren't many multi million dollar houses around here. More people ask about upgrading siding and windows rather than roofing.

Taxgirl2010

For hail claims, we mainly sell the 30yr GAF. When homeowner's ask what type of shingle, we give our preference and one other and explain the difference on color and profile for comparison. They of course trust our reasoning once they know we are looking out for what interests them which is not comparable warranty jibberish. Giving them a much cheaper brand is just a spit in their face and greedy. The respond how it will look on the roof above all.

For estimates unrelated to a paid hail claim, we won't take the job if they ask for a cheap shingle because a manufacturer quality issue risks confusion with the quality of our installation and advise. I am not going to be the one to hear, "why doesn't it look and lay like my neighbor's roof?"
If they upgrade from the 30yr, we only charge the difference in materials, their roof looks better than the Jones' house and that gets neighbors envious and referral calls.

Grumpy

As part of each and every presentation, I show every customer the logo of certainteed and tamko. I mention to each and every customer these are our preferred brands but if they prefer another brand that we can install other brand shingles as well. I too have lost jobs to a customer who wanted some weird shingle or fell in love with one brand for some reason. I'm just saying, pricing different brands may be a waste of time since after all they are usually within a buck or two per square of one another, IKO's aside which are dirt cheap.

You might just want to add a line to your proposal which states "We isntall CertainTeed, GAF and most other shingle brands."

red_cedar

After some thinking, how could anyone sell a Certainteed Shingle with the 5 star warranty with a straight face. Unless of course your just looking for the sale.
It has taken a class action lawsuit for certainteed to make right, manufacturing that had been in process for 15 years.
The homeowners, probably havent gotten anywhere near there investment back with the settlement. Same thing will happen with the shingles now, down the road with these unrealistic manufacturer warranties.

MJW

Just wait. GAF will have one with their Timberlines soon. I've seen plenty of them that are cracked within 5 years.

red_cedar

I know, your right.

Gilby

I have found it works better not to push a certain product. I always way the pros and cons of each roof system but when you focus all your attention on one roof you sound very one sided and it draws the constomer away.

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Grumpy

You're kidding right? The stopped manufacturing their organics at least 6 years ago.

red_cedar

"Entire post is IMO"
My point is that they manufacured defective shingles for 15 yrs, then took a class action lawsuit to settle. Large supply house last year or the year before wasnt even stocking them anymore because they were not paying on claims.

Most everyone here know that shingles no matter how well they are put up, realy only last little more then half of what they are marketed, with some exceptions. Do the exceptions mean that only those roofs had correct installation and ventilation?

How long ago was it that all the shingles got bumped with warranties and the product didnt change. 25 yr went to 30. 30's went to lifetime in the case of the Independence.
How long has the indusrty mostly went to fiberglass. Not that long realy. 15yrs? Are the only roofs being replaced now by everyone, organic based shingles?

Now selling is okay because thats what makes the world go round. But lets not confuse reality with fiction when it comes to shingle manufacturer warranties. Most people with failed roofs dont even file a claim. They either try something else or believe what the person selling the new roof. Starting the cycle all over again.

In regard to the original post, I offer upgrades and try to not get locked in to offering just one manufacturer. The installation is the focus of our approach.

RidgelineRoof

We offer, typically, to start the 30-year roofing systems... through CertainTeed. We'll install anything someone wants us to put on, as long as it's a decent brand... but our experience with CertainTeed is much better than the rest.

If the homeowner wants to upgrade to 40 or 50-year, we only charge the difference in materials as well. No mark up in our labor or anything of the sort. The other upgrade we offer is for the CertainTeed warranty.

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