paulie

First I want to say I'm not a roofer. I sub out roofing, done my share when I was younger and I don't have the nailers etc.

Got a call 2 weeks ago to do a small roof repair on a building I did this summer. A little branch damage on a rake, remove and repair a old pot vent and install ridge vent. Called my regular "roofer guy", too busy. OK let my fingers do the walking and called three different guys. Got the quotes and went with the most expensive guy (not by much) but was professional and seemed to hit it off. All I need is insurance proof and w-9 I say, no problem. No show no call. Track him down and he says he's having problems with his insurance. To make this long post shorter, all three companies had no insurance or was able to fax me a proof. Is this the norm for roofers? Is insurance so high you guys just go without?

So today I was on a roof hand banging three tab shingles and ridge vent til 6pm. I was supposed to go fishing.

Slyfox

I use to think the insurance issue was limited to states like mine in which roofing is a non regulated state but it's become very clear over the past few years that it happens every where.
I can think of a few names right off the top of my head.

I have never been big on subbing my work out, but, every sub I ever used was insured the same as me.

Cost in the 90's with multiple crews and subs on a regular basis, $45,000.00 a year for both liability and comp after discounts etc.
(I paid in $80,000.00 + in 98, but got $28,000.00 back after yearly audits).

In the 2000's with one crew, less than $8,000.00.

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MJW

Very few are what they claim. Everyone claims to be licensed, insured, bonded, etc, etc. Usually if there is a salesman, a front desk, and 10 illegals, you can be certain that no one has insurance except the guy holding the license probably has a crap policy for $1,000 a year. With the smaller companies, you'd be more likely to find people who are actually legit to do work.

paulie

I just don't know how you can operate like that, especially roofing of all things.

3/3 roofing contractors out of the YP. That means at least 1/2 are without Workman's comp or liability? Dang.

www.phbconstruction.com

quality1stconst

I would be SCARED TO DEATH to do ANY work without insurance.

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Will Not Settle for Mediocrity

twill59

Here in Porter County, IN in residential the 1st thing that will eliminate you from 98% of any new construction is indeed proper insurance, properly applied. Not simply work comp on the part-time phone answerer.

If you don't 1099 your employees, you aren't working

tomstruble

how do you 1099 employees?

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Tom

WarnerConstInc.

Yeah, come again!

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twill59

The short version: There is a tax form called a 1099. You get them from the government, for one place. At the end of the year, you send it your employees stating how much money you paid them.

The long version: You pay your employees every week or after every job with a check for the gross amount of wages, agreed upon amount. No taxes taken out. Nor unemployment paid in and no work comp coverage provided. You simply "tell them" that they are sub-contractors.

Of course they use your tools and equipment. And many times they will drive the company trucks. But since you said they are subs, well then by golly you pay them as such. Which is paid through-VOILA!- the tax form 1099!

In other words: How do you 1099 your employees??? You just do!

I hope this helps.

Slyfox

The 1099 is a Federal issue not a State, thus if I was you I would not be giving up such information about how you "break the Federal law" paying your employees as subs.

If I'm reading it wrong and your just stating how some others do "not you" than simply ignore my response.

People do get away with such acts but we did have two roofing contractors and a remodeling contractor get busted over the past few years here in my area. Now if they could only bust the other XXX dozen of contractors and small businesses operating like that it really would cut out all those
"I'll do your new construction roofs for $35.00 per square /any pitch" jack arses around here.

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MJW

See what I'm saying........LOL

These guys are everywhere and have no clue what they are doing!

Warren

Why does line 7 on the 1099 say "non employee" compensation? A form W2 is sent to employees. You just have the wrong form, thats the problem. Other than that, everything is probably legitimate, right?

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"Stop wasting lumber. It doesn't grow on trees ya know! Oh wait, it does."

twill59

I am not sure if you responding directly to me Sly. But it seems like you have a different Federal Government in Ohio than the one in Indiana.

You mean they actually busted someone? More than one even !?!?

Definitely a different Federal Government

PA woodbutcher

I once had problems getting a permit for one of the individual towns here in Pa because my insurance certificate didn't specify roofing. Wen back tot he insurance agent and explained what I needed to her and her questions was "you do roofing"....I do whatever my customers need me to do, if that includes roofing yes. I don't actively go looking for roofing though. She added the phrase "incidental roofing is included" and my problem was fixed

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'The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.' - Ronald Reagan

jkfox624

Yeah mine is set up similar to that. Something like i can roof what i build but only up to a certain size. Either way i try and avoid it at all costs.

Slyfox

LOL, even the politicians here in the "Don't Give A Chit" state bust a few bad guys here and there when they need to make certain Federal Quota's to keep funds for certain programs coming in.

The one roofer was hit with over a million in fines and what not plus a short stem in jail.

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J-Peffer

I remember first starting out roofing it was so frustrating.

It takes awhile to build a name, get familar with bid pricing in the area, learning the sales, there is just a lot to figure out.

The most fusterating thing was dealing with my insurance agent. I called to get quotes on Liability Insurance for roofing, just liability because I started with my personal truck, a bostich nailer, AJC tear off shovel and a twin tank compressor.

Everyone I knew, doing roofing was operating under a "construction" liablitiy insurance certificate. It would run them about $600 for the policy and at audit time, some had to pay in, but most just switch insurance companies.

The lowest quote I found for "ROOFING" was over 3k.

When I asked my agent how everyone else was doing roofing, operating as a construction company, he simply stated, they do it by chance. Most agents represent the agency and not the actually claims though. When these guys go to file a claim, say a employeee pushes some tear off debrie on to the customers car, or the ladder falls over doing a repair onto the car, unless they are doing a remodel with the roof, the insurance company won't pay the claim.

80% of the roofs you see being done, are by people who are not papered up right. That was fusterating to me, being a young guy, just starting out, trying to do everything fair and by the books.

I've only turned 1 guy in who I know was operating with out a license and insurance, and was doing quite a bit of work, owed the shingle distributor thousands of dollars and just moved back to Michigan from Flordia. It took 3 calls, and a complaint to my city commision to get the building inspector to even pull up his name on the internet and see if he carried a license. He did have a license that expered in 1988, you remember that year right? Regan was president. 20 years later, with a crap load of pressure from me, he finally got a "phone call" and no fine.

Slyfox

There's several roofers in my area who abuse that loop hole also.
They call them selves a construction/remodeling company, which those contractors pay 11 - 14% WC compared to roofers paying 25 - 28%.
The problem is they have to show every thing they do as new construction residential, no commercial and no tear offs or lay overs.
The % is less for their liability coverage also.

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tinner666

Twill, I think your posts went over some heads!

I won't explain it to them either!

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Frank Yes, I DO sell domains and hosting and Websites.
$7.49 Domains,Hosting,and Free Website Tonight with Domain
Albert's Roofing, Leak Repairs

PA woodbutcher

Come on tinner splain....How can you 1099 employees?

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'The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.' - Ronald Reagan