Roofing A "witches Hat"

 
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Old 10-28-2004, 10:38 PM   #1
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Roofing A "witches Hat"


Grumpy, I need your advise.
No this is not a seasonal joke. 104 year old Victorian house has a steeple shaped like a witches hat. Inside room is 15' in diameter. Roof line is about 17' from the edge to the peak. I've talked to 10 roofing companys and no one has roofed one of these beasts or has a clue (nor do they want to learn on this one). I can keep the reference lines parallel, but do you cut dimensional shingles into 1/3's, taper each side and lay them like shakes or what? Help!

Existing roof is 3 tab single layer, but it looks like they wrapped a barber's pole and it leaks like a seive.

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Old 10-29-2004, 01:28 AM   #2
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Re: Roofing A "witches Hat"


I'm just curious. Is it round or faceted? Grumpy will probably ask this too. What about pitch? 16-12?

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Old 10-29-2004, 10:54 AM   #3
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Re: Roofing A "witches Hat"


Yeah round or square changes the whole dynamic. Round is much harder. I once did a round 10/12 and a box 22/12, or more. IMO 18/12 isn't even a mansard, the box one was damned near straight up.

First throw out your conventional roofing estimating techniques. Your going to need a boom lift to do this one.

If you can post a few pics I can toss you a guesstimate.
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Old 10-30-2004, 10:24 PM   #4
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Re: Roofing A "witches Hat"


Guys, it is round and steep as hell. I've got a 45' man lift and it takes it all.
I've attached a picture if it works.

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Last edited by Crankshaft; 10-30-2004 at 10:36 PM. Reason: Trying to attach a picture
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Old 10-31-2004, 07:32 AM   #5
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Re: Roofing A "witches Hat"


I've never actually seen a manufacturer's or other specification on how to do this. What we had done was cut our shingles... a lot of cuts. cut cut cut cut cut

I'd use 2' shingles at the bottom and start my way up. Save the 1' cut offs for the upper mid section. Near the top your going to have to cut even more. The key is to eyeball the correct angle so the shingles butt up against each other and there are no gaps between.

You are right you will be installing the shingles like shakes once you get to the top. Also your lucky that you are using an architectural shingle because it will hide mistakes a little better.
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Old 10-31-2004, 07:34 AM   #6
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Re: Roofing A "witches Hat"


Beautiful house BTW. I'd love to have a house like this in my portfolio. What are you putting on the porch roof?

A new roof, paint job, and land scaping and this house would certianly go way UP in value.
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Old 10-31-2004, 09:14 AM   #7
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Re: Roofing A "witches Hat"


I've done 3-4 of these cones. All of mine were shakes, metal or slate, never comp. You can make a wire "ring" at the top, then use a string and a pencil to get even lines around the cone for your courses. Just shorten the string to the next course and mark. I don't think you need the lift. Board the bottom, then board again about 5' up....it looks like you can reach the top then.
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Old 11-01-2004, 08:21 PM   #8
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Re: Roofing A "witches Hat"


Guys, thanks for the input. This confirms about what I had in mind. Grumpy, the roof deck is OK. The outside is just about finished except for the roof. I'll post pictures as soon as it's done. This has been a $100,000 + rehab job.

Thanks a lot,
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Old 11-01-2004, 11:14 PM   #9
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Re: Roofing A "witches Hat"


I'm just curious, what do you do at the peak? I'm thinking a soldered copper cap or something similar.
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Old 11-02-2004, 10:49 AM   #10
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Re: Roofing A "witches Hat"


Yup. Almost always a metal cap. You can buy decorative copulas.
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Old 11-02-2004, 10:34 PM   #11
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Re: Roofing A "witches Hat"


This one is a pretty simple cap. A freehand cedar job from Midway, Ut a few years ago.
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Old 11-02-2004, 11:23 PM   #12
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Re: Roofing A "witches Hat"


I need to get a few of those for my portfolio. Let me ask you, what did you upcharge to do it freehand like that? I'd also heard it called "gator skin".
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Old 11-02-2004, 11:37 PM   #13
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Re: Roofing A "witches Hat"


Very cool roof!
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Old 11-03-2004, 05:47 AM   #14
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Re: Roofing A "witches Hat"


I've had good luck with these by lapping joints instead of butting. Only lap at single ply ends, even if you have to modify shingles to fit. Do same things on each side for uniformity and they look good. Frank
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Old 11-03-2004, 09:19 PM   #15
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Re: Roofing A "witches Hat"


Thanks everyone for you input.
It's statring to come together. My crew will start the tear off Monday.
My roofing distributor found a great article in Roofing/Siding/Insulation January 1983 by Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, Inc. This shows how to lay out and cut the angles. My guess was pretty close. Pull two strings from the top to the bottom (36" apart or the width of one shingle at the cone's base). This shows the angle of all cuts. Divide the cone into 3rds (2/3rds shingle and 1/3 shingle and scribe these parallel reference lines around the cone. Start trimming and fill in. Sounds pretty straight forward.

I can save the top cap and reuse it.
Anyone looking for experience to add to their resume?? I'll buy steaks and beer.

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Old 11-03-2004, 09:38 PM   #16
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Re: Roofing A "witches Hat"


I didn't do this one. The builder told me the peicework labor was 275/sq. There is another one further down the street that has curves and concaves at the valleys and eaves. The cedar shingles were steamed in a homemade steamer overnight and installed the next day wet. 15-20 years old now. Went for $40,000 labor on about 20 sqs. It is also a "freehand" installation on the horizontal. Here are a few more photos. Took 6 months to do. Sorry about the blurred colors, but my photos are way too high a resolution for this board. They are reduced 95% to fit. I'll be over by these jobs in the next few days and will take and post a few fotos of the "steamed" job.
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Old 11-04-2004, 05:11 PM   #17
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Re: Roofing A "witches Hat"


Here are some low res fotos of the "steamed" cedar shingles. Kraig Clawsen of Inovative Roofing Systems in Salt Lake City did the job in about 1981.
Jim
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Roofing a "witches hat"-eaverakes.jpg   Roofing a "witches hat"-freehandfront.jpg   Roofing a "witches hat"-freehandvalley.jpg  
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Old 11-04-2004, 05:12 PM   #18
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Re: Roofing A "witches Hat"


the last foto.
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Old 11-04-2004, 05:26 PM   #19
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Re: Roofing A "witches Hat"


Cedar roofs like that are really nice and take a professional to install. That's why I like high end work... there is less compititon and all your compitition demands top dollar too so it's hard to get low balled and easier to sell on quality.
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Old 11-04-2004, 06:36 PM   #20
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Re: Roofing A "witches Hat"


Crankshaft, that makes sense to me. I was wondering how you would do it with 36" comp. We did it with shakes and slate and just hand trimmed them to mach the angle as we went, but they weren't 36" either.
Grumpy, I agree wholheartedly.
Jim

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