jamesfl

Has anyone been through this program?

I attented the sales training, then quit the company over this sytem.

I'm curious if anyone else has any thoughts or questions regarding this system.

Thanks,

James

Ed the Roofer

What was the reason you quit your previous employer after they instituted that system?

I see them advertise all the time, but don not have any first hand knowledge about how they operate and if they are successful with the contractors they sign up.

Ed

jamesfl

Ed, they would lead you to beleive they are succsefull with the people they sign up. I had my reservations prior to attending sales training with RSI. Rsi provided me with names of purported salesman who attended the program.
Problem was the salesman I talked to were the class instructors.

I believe this program to be smoke and mirrors and a rip off to both the contractor and the home owner.

Rsi charges the contractor thousands up front, plus a monthly fee as well.

The RSI organazation has done the same gimmick with hvac, electrical, and plumbing trades as well.

I bid against my former employer on a job last week, they were double the price of every one else. I got the job!
Beware of RSI

Ed the Roofer

Well it depends on how much total net profit a company winds up making, even if they are twice as much as someone elses price.

If the methods they teach and the ending results obtained by the contractors who sign up for their program provide them with the results they promote, then maybe it is not money down the drain.

I only know of one other organization, called CCN, (Certified Contractors Network), and they charge a high fee with continuing fees to belong as well, but the successful contractors who implement their strategies seem to be doing better than before. I only know one contractor personally though, from this forum, who has signed up and stayed with CCN, and he says that it changed his life and business all for the better.

What exactly does RSI promote and provide for the contractors who sign up with them. I would not be ashamed to be twice the cost of another contractor, if I could justify the additional investment with the client and providing that I actually provided a far superior service and product to them.

Ed

jamesfl

Ed,

All I can say without violating confidentiality agreements is this..

If someone sells you a ford for the price of a range rover, and all you got was a ford, only with the name changed, did you get a fair deal?

Personally, I don't believe in ripping off the non-educated home owner.

I think this abrasive approach to selling jobs that hurts all the legitimate guys on here.

What do you think?

mahlere

if they teach the roofer what they teach the electricians and plumbers, than you totally misunderstood what they were saying...

Ed the Roofer

Without violating any of the previously mentioned confidentiality agreements, what can you openly discuss regarding their business, sales and marketing resources?

Do they solicit individual territories for contractors of each particular trade?

Do they teach someone about systemizing their business to be a stand alone franchise type entity?

What do they provide that an astute contractor does not learn from other sources of networking?

Add what ever else you think may be pertinent to point out the pros and benefits of becoming a member and what the range of fees associated with their organization is please, unless that is confidential. Then at least share some positive information in a way you are comfortable with.

Ed

mahlere

Ed,

that's a bunch of questions, and I really don't want to type a whole lot

so....ESI/PSI/RSI are all part of Clockwork Home Services.

They are a business group that will give you proven techniques to operate better.

They are the parent company for Mr. Sparky, Benjamin Franklin Plumbing and One Hour HVAC

They are similar to Nexstar.

Good luck

theroofinggod

I`ve heard good things about them,why do you feel a company is overcharging,a lot of "companies" do jobs as if they are working by the hour,instead of working w/overhead,liability workers comp,proper equipment,vehicles,and health insurance--my understanding they teach you to systemize,and organise your game as well as teaching you about proper profit margins--I`ll teell you this :a lot of contractors who feel they`re ripping off the h/o`s should just work for someone else who can do it right and provide proper benefits to their employees--I know when I go to the dr. or other professionals I am charged 85-95 per hr,why shouldn`t I charge so I can afford that when I work on their homes,we`re in business to better provide a quality service,and better our lives.I know my kids would like to go to college,and I should be able to afford it,your installation charges should accurately parallel the cost of living!

Ed the Roofer

So that seems to be 2 votes for and 1 vote against, with Ed abstaining for the moment.

Ed

jamesfl

Consider this.
Typical honest roofer:
Complete tear off, replace rotted wood , #30 felt with GAF 30 year=$275 Sq
RSI roofer:
Same exact system, just called a patented name=$575 sq

Fair to the homeowner?

Ed the Roofer

Does that $ 575.00 per square allow for continuing education for the employees of the company?

Does it allow the business to offer health insurance for the employees?

If the supposed "Extra" approximate $ 300.00 per square goes only into the owners pocket, then some might consider that price excessive, but if the value offered and the potential for having steady, healthy and content employees is a direct result of the additional fees, then it is competely justified.

In my area, Home Depot charges $ 4.00 per square foot for plywood decking replacement, which translates to $ 128.00 per sheet. Now, consider that when the old decking is completely torn off and the potential for inclement weather exists, how high the liability factor would be for a contractor doing this work. I admit, that using Home Depot is a poor choice, but they are someone with National Branding Awareness and strong Home Owner recognition.

Why then would a HO use HD for their roofing? Perceived "Trust" and a recognition of the perceived value they are receiving, plut the ability to make installment payments.

At what profit break point would someone consider it to be making too much? If you do 50 roof tear-offs with reroofing per year and charge an average of $ 10,000.00 per job and make a net profit of $ 2,500.00 per job, not including your own pay for your actual expended labor for yourself, (that would be your payroll for labor), you would make $ 125,000.00 per year plus your wages. Is that too much profit?

It all depends on the value perceived by the consumer and the costs of doing business, which determines what is excessive charges.

I have had customers complain on occasion about why are we charging a minimum of $ 64.00 per sheet of 4-ply CDX plywood sheathing for deck replacement, since the sheet only costs between $ 12.00 to $ 20.00 for the past 2 years? I will be upgrading this price due to the risk factor involved. All it takes is one bad circumstance where your liability insurance company denies coverage on a claim and you may not only be out of business, but bankrupt of all of your personal assets as well.

Ed

theroofinggod

To clarify,I am not in favor of RSI in particular,but I am in favor of programs that encourage the contractors to raise their prices and stop working like hourly employees,we should have moneys for the above stated,as well as training ,technicians,a shop,and facilities for employees,This business has so many that "work out of their truck"and never allow for proper overhead,they sell at the lowest price and cut each others throats for the jobs instead of focusing on quality and value to the customer---auto mechanics,auto body men and many others operate on a book rate system that incorporates the cost of being in business,and we should too--you can`t charge less because you work from your truck,don`t have an office,or don`t have proper insurance unless you want to stay that way forever,instead of developing a professional system

MJW

Agreed 100%. It is VERY hard to compete though with the lower end roofers. The HO's only see the price at the bottom of the page. Just look at some posts at the DIY site. The one guy had his job done and they didn't even replace the vents. Now, was that in the bid? This was never said. Our bids include new everything, but we have lost jobs over a few hundred dollars, and the guy re-uses pipe covers, valleys, vents, etc.... It is hard to educate the public because all they care about is the bottom dollar.

mahlere

why do you assume that the cheap contractor is honest? I know many cheap, and I mean cheap, contractors who offer the HO a great deal...some of them are the least honest and most crooked people you will ever meet.

To follow up on Ed's post...do these 'honest' contractors offer their employees:

benefits?
bonuses?
continuing education? (so they don't have to spend their life nailing shingles)
growth opportunities
paid vacations
do they keep them on payroll when work is slow for a couple of weeks?

I know many "honest" contractors who don't have a pot to piss in, or a window to throw it out of..but they offer the customer a great deal..

MJW

I understand what you are saying. No, it's not fair to the HO. I just hate that you used GAF as a referenece. Why would someone be that over-priced? There isn't room for companies that big, that require that much money per job. There is nothing that they can do better than the guy at 275/square.

mahlere

do i sense sarcasm?

MJW

Nope.

mahlere

too bad you feel that way...there is room in the market for companies of every level...at every size and every price point.

what the market needs, for all trades, is more companies that simply do what they say they are going to do, when they say they are going to do it...

some people will gladly pay $575/sq...but they demand, and deserve, to get their monies worth...

jamesfl

Training? in my part of florida is on the job.

Benefits, are you kidding?
works slow..we'll call you when it picks up..

That $575 a square is going into the owners pocket, with a good chunck going to RSI.

I'm all for making money, but to mislead and decieve someone to do it, you can count me out.

James