Roofing Stand-off

Blackkat-1

I had the roof replaced on my house & rental cottage in Florida by a local contractor with out of state sub-contractors. The contract stipulated that I was to be given notice a week in advance so that I could be present for the tear-off because I was concerned about the decking on my 76 year old house. After both houses were completed, I was notified by my neighbor that the roofs looked good and this was back in April. I paid them half the money and the balance of $6,000 is outstanding. Both chimneys had their flashing hacked up(original copper) to install deck flashing. All but one of the valleys never had the flashing replace which I made them do over(I went on an errand when this was happening so when I got back they had removed all the original copper valley flashing) and one part of the roof has never layed flat due to decking issues. I have also had them come back and replace the drip edge where it is all crinkled up but they still need to do more due to inferior craftmenship. Also the courses are not straight but at this point I can live with that even though I find this to be annoying. The roof doesn't leak so that is a plus given the nightmares that others have gone through in this area with out of state contractors who are now out of state.

Anyway, here is my question: How should I end this nightmare and it is mostly concerning the decking. I feel that the decking should be replaced but refuse to pay at this point to have the roof replaced in questionable areas because this should have been done from the beginning as an extra cost which I was willing to pay. Of course without me being there for the tear-off makes the whole thing even more maddening. Any and all thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Tom

Teetorbilt

Been there. Read my roofing posts. This whole state has gone nutz since last Sept. All that I can say is be thankful that you got SOMEBODY! I originally thought that roofers handled the entire roofing structure. I have recently found out that many 'roofers' simply recover. B&Z depts. are swamped, inspectors don't do doodly, they don't want to get out of their A/C'd trucks.
The whole recovery thing is a joke. Thank God that I was here to oversee the job done on my home.

__________________
You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein

Grumpy

Flashings were not repalced? I don't care if it was original copper. I replace all flashings.

If the roofer is willing to open up the roof and reshingle the roof at his expense, you should pay for the wood in those areas.

Sounds like this contractor has very poor communication with his subs.
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Teetor what do you mean about whole structure and recover? Can you be more specific?

Teetorbilt

Grumpy, you know what I have been through over a couple of small roofs and I have gotten pretty knowlegeable on the subject. Thanks for the help.

I'm frequently in developments and notice that the roofers there set the trusses, install the deck, shoot the insulation if it's a conditioned space attic plus dry-in, flashings and shingles, metal or tile. The entire roof structure.

Some of the other so-called roofers went so far as to tell me that the deck didn't need to be re-nailed to code. Some told me that were just going to put new shingles over the old brittle and broken ones. Some didn't know what GIWS was. This was even after I had pointed out two rotten spots, one spot having a rotted rafter visable through the rotted soffit. This would be the re-cover group.

__________________
You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein

Grumpy

I know what you've been through Teetor but I was just confused by your terminology, that's all.

I don't know many roofers that set trusses and know no roofers that do insulation on a regular basis. I am one of the few that messes with insulation and I only do it on 2 occasions. Attic mold remediation (BiG MOOLA) or if the customer makes me Ie: "I want to hire one contractor for the roof and insulation."

I am not a an of placing new over old but I am currently working on a 3 layer tear off and bidding another 3 layer tear off next door. Point being though most quality conscious roofes don't do it many codes, and manufacturers, allow it.

I definetly want to replace all rotted/cracked/split wood. I was on the roof today helping my crew with the tear off. I pointed out allt he wood I wanted replaced. A few were questionable but I said I'd rather replace it now than in 5 years Then I smash it with my hammer so it has to be replaced and they can't claim they forgot :!:

Blackkat-1

All that I can say is be thankful that you got SOMEBODY!

I did the temporary work after Ivan and the roof was not leaking and there was only minor leaking during the storm so I was in no real hurry to get a new roof. At least until hurrican season.


B&Z depts. are swamped, inspectors don't do doodly, they don't want to get out of their A/C'd trucks.

The inspector was suppose to come by on Friday; still waiting.


Thank God that I was here to oversee the job done on my home.[/QUOTE]

You are lucky; I needed a new roof before the storm and I had priced a new roof right before the storm with a reputable roofing company. I couldn't even get them to come over and give an estimate after the storm. This company was local so I went with them and told them I wasn't in a hurry.

Tom

Blackkat-1

[QUOTE=Grumpy]Flashings were not repalced? I don't care if it was original copper. I replace all flashings.

Nice to know.

If the roofer is willing to open up the roof and reshingle the roof at his expense, you should pay for the wood in those areas.

I was willing to pay to have the deck replaced in bad areas as per our contract,but.....

I have decided to not have them come back at all due to lack of faith and trust at this point. Too many lies and half--ss attempts to do things just to get the last or second last check. The two sections of roof that need to be re-decked will just have to be done by myself which is completely aggravating.

Tom

AaronB.

Was he the low bidder?

__________________
http://www.roseroofing.net/
Seamless Industrial and Commercial Roofing Systems, Residential Repair. For Those That Demand Quality!
Free roof inspections within 12 miles of our locale.

Grumpy

Interesting question

Blackkat-1

The price before hurricane Ivan was $9,000.00 for both houses; after the storm the price for both houses is $13,000.00. I found out from the roofing inspector that this company was running two crews before the storm while after the storm they were running 21 crews with no supervision on my home from management. The going rate at the signing of my contract was about $200 a square and it came down to around $150 before hurricane Dennis and I don't know what it is now.

Tom

AaronB.

I could not do them for 150 a square in my area, and we do not have as high of work comp rates here. Can barely do them for 200 a square. Legitimate companies that are paying our fair share of comp, GL, taxes, and generally contributing to society as a whole have to pay all of the burdens AND make a profit. Most homeowners only see the $$$ and quality craftsmanshio, integrity, skilled labor and such important characteristics fly right out the window most times.

__________________
http://www.roseroofing.net/
Seamless Industrial and Commercial Roofing Systems, Residential Repair. For Those That Demand Quality!
Free roof inspections within 12 miles of our locale.

Blackkat-1

[QUOTE=AaronB.]I could not do them for 150 a square in my area,

I paid the going rate for that area at that time with a roofing contractor who has been in business for many years. They were doing three or four roofs in my neighborhood and I contacted one of my neighbors regarding their work. They had too many crews(sub-contractors) without any supervision and now they are dealing with their lack of responsibility. I don't know the size of your business but would you be willing to baloon your operation to over 20 crews working at the same time if you were set-up to handle two crews?(I know I wouldn't & couldn't do this with my business) Had I known this info at the time of the contract signing I would have passed on this company.

Tom

Grumpy

I agree with Aaron about the rates being low as well, but I agree with Black that this business made a poor decision to baloon 10x their original size iin what appears to be overnight.

Personally if I was put in that situation I would have raised my rates accordingly to hire a person who did nothing but supervision. Then I'd begin to grow to the point that this person couldn't take on any more work and STOP. I estimate that if I were only able to supervise two crews this person should be able to supervise 5, if it was their only job. That's a grand total of 7 crews... and a realistic number also.

AaronB.

I annot find quality roofers ANYWHERE that know how to roof my way. They simply arent out there, not available, anyways, so I run one crew, and emphasize on our (my) quality. I think he forgot how critical skill is in a roofing operation, as do most homeownwers when the $$$$ are on the table.

P.S. The "going rate" is the fastest route to bankruptcy court.

__________________
http://www.roseroofing.net/
Seamless Industrial and Commercial Roofing Systems, Residential Repair. For Those That Demand Quality!
Free roof inspections within 12 miles of our locale.

Grumpy

This is one of those threads that I shoulda locked out and sent over to the diy forum, being that it is a homer situation.

Aaron, you never will find anyone who knows how to roof your way, the same as I will never find anyone who knows how to roof my way. Every crew does things different and it's your job as the foreman to show them your way.

AaronB.

Ok by my way, I meant with high quality orientation, with a high level of customer satisfaction and total profesionalism, delivering what we say on time and in good conditions, no breakage, no damages, seeing mishaps before they materialize....just generally giving a darn that the company succeeds so that we may all prosper.

The technical details of roofing are the easy part.

__________________
http://www.roseroofing.net/
Seamless Industrial and Commercial Roofing Systems, Residential Repair. For Those That Demand Quality!
Free roof inspections within 12 miles of our locale.

Blackkat-1

I think he forgot how critical skill is in a roofing operation, as do most homeownwers when the $$$$ are on the table.

I am a general contractor so I understand skill. We have installed shingled roof's on penthouses over the years so I understand roofing in its simplest application. Money wasn't the issue;getting a roofer in a hurricane plagued area was an issue before the next hurrican season. This roof was started in March.

P.S. The "going rate" is the fastest route to bankruptcy court.[/QUOTE]

The roofing contractors price was typical of a (as I thought) a high quality roofing contractor for this area. Was it significantly less than what it would cost in your area or NYC where I live? Yes, of course. Labor costs,truck insurance, business buildings,health insurance are all significantly less in this area than either your location or mine. WC maybe high but other factors lower they prices.

Anyway, at this point I will wait until the building inspector shows up and procede as necessary.

Thanks for your input.

Tom

Grumpy

Again, Aaron that stuff needs to be taught, I feel. My foreman definetly has the company mentality, however he's got a union background so even when he hustles he is slow I'm trying to break him of that by planning his day better for maximum efficiency.

My other guys are all pretty new but I have made it a point to explain how I want things done and they are catching on I think. The only complaint I have is tarping, but they are definetly catching on to that after hearing me bitch over and over.