Roofing/Gutter Question

BRNDIVY

We have a job scheduled to begin this week that was co-ordinated with the roofer's schedule..Well, the roofers ended up completing the job without notifying us first so that I may juggle our schedule. Now we are going to have to deal with removing high back copper without interfering with the HO's new tile roof. Do you think shearing off the old gutter would be the best bet? The portion of the gutter left would basically serve as drip edge...What would you do??

Ed the Roofer

Before you go and just do what you may "think" is the right thing, the change in scope should be addressed. If your WRITTEN agreement with the home owner addressed the job sequencing, and the scheduling was in either the home owner or the roofing contractors hands, you should have been contacted in a proper amount of time in advance. So, were you contacted in advance? The roofing contractor may say that they did leave a message for you.

If you shear off the old gutter flange, it will probably have an unkempt or jagged edge. Surely, it will not be as clean of an edge as a pre-manufactured gutter apron drip edge flashing. Now, you have taken on the responsibility for the final aesthetics.

You only have the leverage in this situation prior to doing the gutter installation. I would now write up a change order requiring additional work to be compensated, for the unanticipated conditions. If you proceed, and attempt to slide, tilt, or lift up the tile roof materials, you could be held responsible for misaligned tiles or even cracked tiles. Any movement of mechanically fastened tiles would undoubtedly loosen the fasteners, either screws or nails if they installed them correctly. Now, you may have affected the tile roof installers warranty and be liable for damage repairs.

It is your decision now. Do you have enough excess profit in the job quote to take on the additional work for no compensation or for the potential warranty or aesthetic issues discussed and just accept this as a learning experience.

Even if I did have substantial profit built in, I would still get everything in writing and be held harmless for any aesthetic issues or tile warranty issues. I would also suggest that the tile roofer come back out and remove the old gutters or the tiles prohibiting you from doing your job correctly, and that would be the burden of either the home owner or the tile installer. Why should you decrease your profit margin due to someone elses negligence?

I hope this gives you some food for thought.

Ed

gutrman

Assuming you are protected from any liabilities but your own and you can be profitable, I would take an electric shears to the back of the gutter.

Are you replacing with copper gutter? (Copper and aluminum don't do well together.)

I would shear the exisiting gutter low so that you would not see the jagged edge. Of course not too low to where it will interfere with the new install. I know doing this makes your job harder and more time consuming but it will make for cleaner look as well as ensuring water flow into the gutter. You will only be able to use no clip hangers if you use hidden hangers, since the "drip edge" will be quite low in the gutter.

We have done this quite often on commercial and industrial structures where the old gutter is incorporated into the roof.

Hope this helps.

BTW Ed, that was great information.

BRNDIVY

The job was scheduled to start this Wed...The GC called me today to tell me that the roofers just showed up and done the roof over the weekend....

Can't dispute that...

That is my biggest concern. The tear off should have been done prior to the roof install. For now, the job is on hold till I hear back from the GC. It's not worth the risk..

BRNDIVY

Fresh copper is to be installed..I'm holding off until I hear back from the GC & making sure I get it in writing..I shouldn't have even run across this problem

BRNDIVY

Just got off the phone with the GC of the project..The roofing crew will be spending the next few days removing the old gutters and installing fresh drip edge. We both agreed that the addidtional time & labor involved.. not to mention the added liability is not worth it. Luckily, this mishap will not effect our schedule too much since I intentionally scheduled lighter next week due to the holiday.

Ed the Roofer

I am glad your GC helped to work out a solution to the potential liability situation. They sure know how to light a fire under someones butt when they want to. (Past experiences speaking)

Now at least you are out of the liability aspect, but still make sure its in writing.

I presume the drip edge to be installed by the tile roofer will be copper. Make sure they do not short cut the install by sliding it under the 1st course of tile and face nail or screw it. I don't know if you are using pump out seamless copper or 1/2 round, but your style of hangers or ornamental brackets may dictate how the drip edge should be fastened and how much it should hang down the fascia into the new gutters.

I'm new to this site, but I surely see the potential for networking for solutions and just good clean open discussions for knowledge.

Ed

gutrman

Glad it worked out for you... Sounds like a good GC to work for.

Grumpy

Yes, this is what I would do. We've done it before. Obviously We prefer when we can install new flashing, but sometimes this is all you can do.