Roofing Felt Under Drip Edge

 
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Old 08-25-2010, 01:28 AM   #21
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Re: Roofing Felt Under Drip Edge


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Originally Posted by CutEdgeDesign View Post
Consider the drip edge to be a diverter of water from the roof into the gutter. If there is not some sort of edge then the water would run in between the gutter and facia. A good comparison is a deck ledger board needing flashing to keep water from going between it and the house. Which by the way is code. I can't picture it working properly without the drip edge.
It is a regional thing 4-sure.Drip edge is not code in my area,and in the 20 yrs I've been roofing,I've only used it a handful of times(as per h/o request).We extend our shingles past the fascia aprox 1 1/2-2".99% of our tear-offs have had no drip edge,with no rot issues(stemming from lack of d/e).Like I said,its a regional thing.Your weather is the deciding factor.We have mild winters.
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Old 08-25-2010, 04:59 AM   #22
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Re: Roofing Felt Under Drip Edge


ok. drip edge is continuous and it touches the fascia board in the SAME spot all along the run. The gutter is raised usually on one end, sometime in the middle, and then lower on the drain ends. tell me how the drip edge is keeping the water from going behind the gutter and making a tight seal? no way.

I have pulled off old wood that wasn't properly painted and gutters clogged, that had DRIP EDGE and there was still rot. drip edge is not making a seal between the two and if the gutter fills up and overflows. it's going to run over the front if properly installed. some water may get behind it. but that has nothing to do with the drip edge.

i've even gone to customers houses where it's a metal standing seem roof, which has copper drip edge all along the fascia and guess what, from blockages in the gutter, the water still got behind the gutter and in a few year rotted out the fascia

if you really want to protect the fascia, and you are keeping painted wood, then you gotta have a membrane between the roof and lay it into the back of the gutter and seal it.

no drip edge is not cutting a corner as it's not necessary and doesn't make the roof correct or not correct. some guys may be stuck on it because that is all they have ever done but i've done jobs with and without it and it makes zero difference.
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Old 08-25-2010, 06:32 AM   #23
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Re: Roofing Felt Under Drip Edge


I do like John K does, I think drip edge has 2 purposes. One is to support the shingle edge and reduce the overhang into the gutter which makes cleaning gutters easyier and then guide the water roll into the gutter.

I almost never use it I over hang into the gutter 2" no problems, truth be said.......the cleaning the gutters would be easier.

Last edited by Tom M; 08-26-2010 at 06:47 AM.
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Old 11-02-2010, 07:29 PM   #24
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Re: Roofing Felt Under Drip Edge


I realize that this is a slightly old thread but I stumbled across it in a search and since there is some mis-info on this thread I thought I should chime in for future searchers who happen to stumble across it too. This seems to be a frequent question.

  • Grace specs the I&W to go under any metal drip edge.
  • Henry EaveGuard doesn't say that I know of.
  • Certainteed Winterguard specs it over the drip at the eaves and under at the rakes.
  • Owens Corning Specs underlayment on top at eaves and on bottom at rakes
To my knowledge, Grace is the only company that specs the I&W type barrier to go under the drip edge. Indeed, the NRCA advises the drip-on-bottom method.

In my area (very cold snowy winters and desert summers) the inspectors will give you a really hard time about a drip-on-top install at the eaves, unless you also place another layer of underlayment over the I&W and the drip. This is because the 2009 IRC favors the underlayment on top method. Obviously, the IRC allows for either method, but if drip is installed on top at eaves, then the code requires an additional 4" wide strip of roof cement over the top edge of the drip. This point is often overlooked by those who advocate the drip-on-top method. In fact, it is my understanding that code officials preferred the drip-on-bottom method, but realized that in high-wind areas it was nice to have the mechanical fasteners of the drip edge to prevent wind from getting under at the eaves and peeling the entire roof off. They originally required the drip-on-top method to both have cement on top, and to also be bedded in cement, but they got rid of the second part. It should be noted that the Grace I&W install instruction details are against code in that they fail to require the 4" strip of roofing cement.

IMO, there is no problem applying the metal drip edge directly to the sheathing (which is also the NRCA recommendation). If condensation were a factor we would have wood rotting out at every nail head, and under every aluminum soffit. Indeed, a huge number of houses have aluminum wrapped sub-fascia with no condensation barrier between. The idea is that condensation forms on the humid side. The only way that this can happen underneath the drip edge is if somehow the water is already getting to the wood. Otherwise the wood side of the drip edge will never be the wet side in a properly vented roof.

The purpose of the drip edge is to prevent water that is running down the roof plane from subsequently running down the front of the fascia or wicking up underneath the end of the shingles, with or without a gutter. It does a great job of this. Much more so than simply overhanging the shingles.

Last edited by Cache; 11-02-2010 at 07:37 PM.
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Old 11-08-2010, 09:14 PM   #25
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Re: Roofing Felt Under Drip Edge


No drip edge with shingles hanging into the gutter an inch and a half to two inches looks unfinished and like crap IMHO.

Cut a 12 inch strip of I+W lay it down wrap the fascia a bit, then drip edge and a full width of I+W over it. Costs more, takes longer, but solves both cases outlined. I don't know why all roofers judge how good a roofer they are by how fast they can lay shingles and get to the next job, what happened to a little pride in your work and doing the job right.

Hanging the shingles over into the gutter causes leaf buildup and makes it impossible to clean the gutters without damaging the shingles.
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Old 11-08-2010, 09:35 PM   #26
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Re: Roofing Felt Under Drip Edge


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No drip edge with shingles hanging into the gutter an inch and a half to two inches looks unfinished and like crap IMHO.

Cut a 12 inch strip of I+W lay it down wrap the fascia a bit, then drip edge and a full width of I+W over it. Costs more, takes longer, but solves both cases outlined. I don't know why all roofers judge how good a roofer they are by how fast they can lay shingles and get to the next job, what happened to a little pride in your work and doing the job right.

Hanging the shingles over into the gutter causes leaf buildup and makes it impossible to clean the gutters without damaging the shingles.
Doesn't make it impossible.No drip edge where I'm from,never was and is not needed.Never had a problem because of lack of(d/e).It doesn't look like crap,because you don't see it from the ground.If it was called for or needed I would be the first one to use it.I do everything by the books.
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Old 11-09-2010, 06:19 AM   #27
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Re: Roofing Felt Under Drip Edge


Here's the deal.

In Minnesota drip edge is NOT code.

In Minnesota ice and water shield two feet past the interior wall IS code.

That being said since drip edge is not code and ice and water is putting down drip edge first on the eave is sort of like running your ice and water two inches up past the fascia board. Of course you have drip edge down there or in some cases gutter apron but you only have the material to protect the bottom two inches of decking NOT ice and water shield.

With properly installed ice and water and drip edge how much water could get behind the drip? As a matter of fact when was the last time you tore a roof off this way and the drip edge didn't stick down to the ice and water much like the shingles or felt do?

Again drip edge NOT code ice and water IS code.

This topic has been beat to death and the outcome always stays the same about 50/50. If you warrant your work and your manufacturer allows both methods who really cares?

We get a fair amount of ice build up on eaves here in Minnesota so I feel it best to alway protect as much of the decking/fascia as possible. Like Jim we like to run the sticky stuff just past the outer edge of the fascia board.

Anybody ever put down drip edge in direct sun light on say a 90 degree day and then roll out 25ft of ice and water on top?
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Old 11-09-2010, 06:31 AM   #28
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Re: Roofing Felt Under Drip Edge


your all a bunch of drips imho
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Old 11-10-2010, 04:43 PM   #29
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Re: Roofing Felt Under Drip Edge


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Doesn't make it impossible.No drip edge where I'm from,never was and is not needed.Never had a problem because of lack of(d/e).It doesn't look like crap,because you don't see it from the ground.If it was called for or needed I would be the first one to use it.I do everything by the books.

I just did it for 5 years on my own home and it sucked. When I tore off this summer, I put drip edge on. While you might not see it on a 2 story roof, the front of my house has a 10 pitch roof on a single story and it looked like crap standing 8 -10 feet back. Clean the gutters enough times and the shingle start getting all torn up on the edges.

So maybe its just personal preference, but if I did another roof, I would use drip edge. The drip edge also helps when you have aluminum capped fascia.
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Old 11-10-2010, 08:32 PM   #30
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Re: Roofing Felt Under Drip Edge


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Clean the gutters enough times and the shingle start getting all torn up on the edges.
That's ridiculous.
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Old 11-10-2010, 09:29 PM   #31
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Re: Roofing Felt Under Drip Edge


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I just did it for 5 years on my own home and it sucked. When I tore off this summer, I put drip edge on. While you might not see it on a 2 story roof, the front of my house has a 10 pitch roof on a single story and it looked like crap standing 8 -10 feet back. Clean the gutters enough times and the shingle start getting all torn up on the edges.

So maybe its just personal preference, but if I did another roof, I would use drip edge. The drip edge also helps when you have aluminum capped fascia.
None of my jobs look like crap.Like I said thats how we do it.We allow room for gutter cleaning,we adjust according to gutter size.
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Last edited by johnk; 11-10-2010 at 09:32 PM.
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Old 11-11-2010, 12:36 AM   #32
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Re: Roofing Felt Under Drip Edge


Drip edge first, its common sense really having the paper underneath defeats the purpose.
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Old 11-11-2010, 01:05 AM   #33
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Re: Roofing Felt Under Drip Edge


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That's ridiculous.
Rediculous maybe, but fact in my case. I unfortunatley speak from experience, lots of trees, gutters hung to high and shingles left way to long, just poor quality work all around.

I'm not a roofer, the only roofing I'll do in a quick patch here or there, or in this case my own home. Not sure if its the norm, but its what the roofer did when they roofed my house in 1990, and I was cursing everytime cleaning the gutters for the last 5 years.

No matter, all fixed and done right this time around.
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Old 11-11-2010, 05:44 PM   #34
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Re: Roofing Felt Under Drip Edge


The better way, if you want to stand out and if you are able to drive home the difference to the customer is to follow the instructions on page 10 of the grace manual listed above.

1. The drip edge is installed over the first layer of
Grace underlayment
2. A second layer of Grace underlayment is installed
over the drip edge
3. Install Grace underlayment to form water shedding laps
4. Repair all holes left from removal of toe boards,
roof jacks, etc.


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Old 11-11-2010, 05:46 PM   #35
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Re: Roofing Felt Under Drip Edge


wow i thought i just saw ed the roofer
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Old 11-11-2010, 06:01 PM   #36
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Re: Roofing Felt Under Drip Edge


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wow i thought i just saw ed the roofer
LOL..... I'm trying

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Old 11-12-2010, 07:50 AM   #37
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Re: Roofing Felt Under Drip Edge


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Originally Posted by Ed the Roofer View Post
The better way, if you want to stand out and if you are able to drive home the difference to the customer is to follow the instructions on page 10 of the grace manual listed above.

1. The drip edge is installed over the first layer of
Grace underlayment
2. A second layer of Grace underlayment is installed
over the drip edge
3. Install Grace underlayment to form water shedding laps
4. Repair all holes left from removal of toe boards,
roof jacks, etc.


Ed

Many homes now have this because of storm damage. An old layer or two or three, and a new layer over the drip with the new roof.

Personally, I think it's getting way out of hand. This is pushed by people in offices that make up these broad specs to go by and leave very little to the professional.

I also feel all I&W should be covered by a layer of felt. That way we can actually remove the shingles.
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Old 11-12-2010, 04:11 PM   #38
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Re: Roofing Felt Under Drip Edge


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Many homes now have this because of storm damage. An old layer or two or three, and a new layer over the drip with the new roof.

Personally, I think it's getting way out of hand. This is pushed by people in offices that make up these broad specs to go by and leave very little to the professional.

I also feel all I&W should be covered by a layer of felt. That way we can actually remove the shingles.
I agree. I started doing that a couple of years ago, when the discussions were talking about how difficult it was to tear off the old shingles stuck to the Ice and Water Shield.

Out of hand or not, if it is one more way and one more item out of several or many that tips the scales in your favor for getting the job and doing it better than anyone elses specifications, then I am all for it.

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Old 11-13-2010, 09:44 PM   #39
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Re: Roofing Felt Under Drip Edge


The idea of felt over w&i was brought up at the last CT advisory meeting.

The problem I see and eluded to is after the shingles are easily extracted from the lower portion of the roof covering what to do with the felt? The last MSA book made mention to the fact that Winterguard is not recommended to be installed over felt.

If you put w&i over felt do you really have a proper seal? This is of course when you have felt over w&i. It's sort of like an underlayment sandwich with felt being the "meat".

The roofs I've torn off with grace we didn't have to scrape the shingles off it like other w&i brands. From my experiance Winterguard is the toughest.
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Old 11-14-2010, 01:22 PM   #40
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Re: Roofing Felt Under Drip Edge


I believe the instructions on Winterguard now say to install felt over it if the sand is worn off. Usually this happens when installing shingles when it is too hot.

Doug, you have a good point, but I bet the felt comes off the I&W easier than shingles.

Anyone notice that the roofs with most sun exposure and direct sun exposure have the most problems? It also seems even worse when you know the last roof was installed in very high temps.

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