Roofer Vs. Roofer (Just A Long Winded Hypothetical)

Thunder1

This is a subject I've felt strongly about for a long time and one I usualy Discuss with roofers I meet if they seem receptive and reasonable. I do ramble on a bit, but if you have nothing better to do read on.

I’m sure everyone has gotten this call.
*Ring*Ring*Ring*
(Roofer) Hello, Roofer’s Roofing!
(HO) Hello, I’d like you to come look at my roof.
(Roofer) I would love to! Like the ad says "Free Estimates"!
(HO) That’s why I picked you. When can you come over?
(Roofer) I’ll be done with a project today and can squeeze you in before dinner. What kind of roof do you have?
(HO) Well… A new one. But I think the roofer who did it was a Hack!
(Roofer)*Sigh* OK give me the address and I’ll be there this afternoon.
(HO) I’m out-in the sticks about 20 min N of town.
(Roofer) OK see ya’ then. *Click* ********************!

This seemingly simple conversation is loaded with possibility and none of it is good for business.
On the surface it feels like getting tricked into making an appearance for free just to look at a roof that at best needs repair. On second thought, it sounds like the fellow wants someone to confirm his suspicions about the roofer who DID get the real work. That means a full inspection of the new roof and who knows how long explaining things to an already wary HO who is not expecting you to bill him for your time.
If there is nothing wrong with the roof he will likely not be satisfied and at best you get to bill for the inspection, hardly making wages and gas AND you‘re late for supper. (Over bill this call and your asking for trouble).
If you know the roofer who did the work to be competent and honest then you may really have trouble. You open the door for the ol’ “you Roofers are just sticking together” routine. But, you can probably dismiss it as time lost on someone else’s bad customer and accept the same ding in your reputation that they got.
And if you know the Roofer who did the work to be a Hack and a Swindler you will likely be perceived as a badmouther and bootlicker looking to fabricate work, not by your new buddy the HO of course but other professionals may feel this way and referrals from this “job” need to be approached very carefully.

Like I said, ‘Loaded with possibility’ these are just a few. Everyone would rather not get this call but when it comes you need to minimize the potential for a negative outcome. I try to fallow these guidelines when dealing with unknowns and it usually has the net affect of improving my reputation among customers as well as competition.

1) “FREE estimate” actually means “free ESTIMATE”. Be up front with your callers about the value of your time. If they only want information about their roof and don’t intend to actually make changes or repairs, explain that what they are looking for is an “Inspection” which includes a detailed overview of their roofs conditions, your professional recommendations and a BILL.

2) Get as much information from the caller as you can BEFORE committing to an appointment or opinion. This can be very difficult with some but it gives you an opportunity to show you’re knowledgeable and competent. By using poignant questions to collect information from vague descriptions and interjecting with confidence. Your technical ability should be established before you arrive at their door. And in the example above, it may give you an opportunity to put their fears aside without getting involved.

3) After the above two steps you might feel justified in setting fire to the other roofer’s rep. DON’T. Give the other guy a chance, even if it’s just a phone call. Ask the HO if they would like the installer to make the NECESSARY repairs for free with you as a mediator. This will save them money and the original roofer, if he has any common sense at all will return for the repair and possibly patch it up with his customer (Throw his laborers under the buss no doubt). NOTE: Charging for Arbitration services on the fly can be very tricky and even dangerous. If it is a simple thing of minor repairs I would recommend offering only to place a call to the original roofer and a second inspection of the repairs (at a discount). If it is a large job or the repair details are disputable (If they weren't you wouldn't have been called)you will need some carefully prepared paperwork to insure that you’re properly compensated for your service and that you are not going to assume liability.

The roof of most homes is the largest part of R&R it will ever see. Our trade brings homeowners in contact with real contractors more than any other type of work. Because they live IN the home and not ON it, they usually have a better understanding of how kitchen cabinets should be installed than how to flash a chimney. This often requires them to trust us further than they would like and without an advanced understanding of many roofing/waterproofing principals that trust can only be garnered from the character of the roofer and his reputation. When that trust is perceived as being betrayed, ordinarily GOOD people can become extraordinarily bad customers.
MOST of the roofers I have known meet a pretty high standard of honesty and no one will deny that roofing is hard work but because a roof is commonly inspected or literally “picked apart” by another roofer, we all come under fire from our own profession at one time or another.
We all need to look beyond our own shingle and try to reinforce the reputation of ALL roofers as Honest Hardworking Professionals. Give the benefit of the doubt to your fellow roofer and allow him the opportunity to repair his mistakes and damaged customer relations before blasting him publicly.

And when it comes down to it and you have to fallow in the wake of a BAD roofer, be sure it is clear with the customer that YOU represent your trade and he dose NOT.

A footnote for the homeowner: This post addresses a problem that roofing contractors experience on an all too regular basis. I do not address many of the possible perspectives of the customer in this example because it is my aim to prepare myself and other roofers to handle situations in a standardized manner to protect US. Proper procedure always includes consideration of YOUR special circumstances as well as local, state and federal contract & arbitration law, and by being aware of these guidelines you will know that you are protected by those laws as long as you and your contractor abide by them. I would further hope that you recognize that this is a Roofing Forum and read the material in that context.

I've had some free time to sit down here and shoot the breeze (no pun intended) because of the turning weather and because none of my roofs leak to sour my disposition in fall.
My heart goes out to roofers caught in the REAL weather going on in other parts of the country and who can not enjoy the respite because of mounting bills, damaged property or nagging customers and their insurance adjusters.

You guys who did a good turn of business this summer be sure and remember your employees this Xmass and remember how hard this season can be for family men who work for a wage.

Happy Holidays All.

Mike Finley

I tend to agree with what you say. It's pretty much a Darwinian effect though isn't it? You waste enough of your time without doing steps 1 & 2 and hopefully sooner or later you figure out that you might want to do steps 1 & 2. If it never crosses your mind or doesn't bother you than, so be it, congratulate yourself with where you are at business wise and get used to it because you're probably going to be doing exactly what you are doing for the same compensation for a long, long time.

AaronB.

Go with your gut. Most times, youre probably right. I would sjip it all together, and save the trouble, time, and gas, AND make it to dinner on time.

__________________
http://www.roseroofing.net/
Seamless Industrial and Commercial Roofing Systems, Residential Repair. For Those That Demand Quality!
Free roof inspections within 12 miles of our locale.

Grumpy

"Oh Mrs/Mr Customer this is not an estimate youa re requesting but an inspection. That's no problem I can still stop out these evening. Will you be able to pay the inspection fee by check or credit card?"

Yes I charge for inspections, infact I advertise it and do a hand full of paid inspections per year. Sticks? I don't go out to the sticks under any questionable circumstances.

Repairs? I always try to do repairs on time and material. I close them over the phone. "Mr/Mrs Customer it sounds to me like we can definetly help you from what you are describinig. We would charge you time and material at $150 for the first hour and $75 each additional hour. Obviously plus the cost of materials with no markup. I'd prefer if you are home to show my worker the problem. What day would you like to schedule?"

I do very few repair estimates any more.

AaronB.

I dont charge by the hour for repairs, cuz I make more money pricing them.

__________________
http://www.roseroofing.net/
Seamless Industrial and Commercial Roofing Systems, Residential Repair. For Those That Demand Quality!
Free roof inspections within 12 miles of our locale.

Grumpy

Aaron you are 100% right, I usually make more when I price them and win them... but I spend too much time pricing repairs that I do not win and the profit simply is not there to support the whole sales system. Look at it this way, when you price a repair you spend the SAME ammount of time as if you priced a whole new roof... and you earn what $500 profit on a repair. What would you earn in the same ammount of time pricing a roof? At least $1000 profit, hopefully much more. That's double pay for the same work.

To be honest I ONLY do repairs to build my customer base. Sometimes it's almost like getting paid for an estimate. "Mr customer we repaired your chimney and bought you a few years but you really need a new roof..."

Having said that the only time I price repairs is if they are in my immediate service area. That's 5 miles or less from my headquarters. Otherwise they get a verbal T&M quote over the phone. If they can't deal with that, I really don't care.

AaronB.

I get it.

I, on the other hand, would rather make the 500 in a couple hours than per day on our hypothetical roof.

Also, I am a master (patting myself on the back) of finding leaks that many others cannot find, or cannot repair properly. I also enjoy fixing the other comanies' mistakes. LOL

__________________
http://www.roseroofing.net/
Seamless Industrial and Commercial Roofing Systems, Residential Repair. For Those That Demand Quality!
Free roof inspections within 12 miles of our locale.

dougger222

I agree with both Aaron and Thomas.

If the call is for a re-roof my time is free until the contract is signed but if it's a repair or an inspection it's paid in full when I leave plainly said before I fire up the diesel.

For an inspection a set price if figured prior to setting up a time to discuss matters. If it's for a repair of any sort a flat rate of $250 on a dry day and $350 if it's raining. The cost for all materials are added in the bill as well as all time driving around to or from home owners house. If the repair takes only caulk in most cases it's the flat rate plus $25 but if it needs shingles or flashing the price goes up pretty fast, especially if it's raining!

In almost every case of roof repairs while raining the home owners are so happy you can make it out the same day within an hour or two they gladly pay whatever it takes to fix the leak. Most home owners tell me they called over 10+ roofers before me. This is were advertising in phone books really pays off!!!

A few years ago I replaced three shingles on a home owners brand new house while roofing a new house down the street in a new housing development. When I crawled up on the roof with three shingles in hand I started noticing very lousy quality. The builder of the house is known to make cheap homes but what I found was very bad. Were the shingles piles were which is were the shingles blew off there was no felt paper, there was also no felt on the peaks since the "roofers" ran short on the role so they just left it. Every open valley was cut as crooked as can be and the ridge shingles were done very poorly were the dormers met the house. Nails were popped up all over the roof and most of courses were run 3/4 of an inch too high. The home owner and I made of list of 20 things unacceptable on his roof. After meeting with the "roofer" and the two job supervisors the "roofer" was told he had to tear off the roof and shingle it in again!!! I was too busy at the time to see if the original roofer did it again and the home owner tried to get me to come over the days they were working but I figured it was safer away from on hellofa pissed off roofer!!!