Roof To Wall Flashing On A Bay Bump Out???

wackman

Now, I'm no expert roofer but I've done a few roofs in my day.

I have a new home design that I created and copyrighted that is being built for the first time right now. It has two bay window bump outs on the front of it. I just had it roofed and my roofer used solid 5"x4" head flashing (roof to wall) all around the bays with the horizontal part on top of all the comp.

I think it looks like **** and I wanted it hidden under the comp. He says that they did it the normal way and it's not possible to hide it or step flash it without it leaking. This is where I need the opinion of the experts. Like I said I've done probably 30 roofs in my life but that hardly qualifies me as an expert and I can't ever remember doing a bay bump out or something similar.

Is there a way to hide the flashing under the comp? Even if it's more complicated and will cost me more? There are several locations where you can see it clearly and it looks bad. It's definitely a detractor from the curb appeal and an eyesore for the house next door that I'm also doing.

I don't have any clear pictures of the flashing I'm talking about right now but I'll take some more tomorrow or monday to really show what I'm talking about. Here are the ones I do have and they're enough so you can get the idea.

Grump? Ed? Help me out here.

Wack

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Roofboy

Hello,

I was a shingler for 17 years and never had a problem with a detail like what your are showing. Was the job already complete? If so he probably didn't want to go back and do it the correct way.(IMO)
It is very easy to put the color of the shingle on the headwall flashing.
1. cut the tabs off even with the keyways.
2. Nail tabs over metal using #4 pin nails, setting proper offset of shingles.
3. Cover nail heads with tube mastic such as Henrys.
As far as the sides. We use shake steps when you have to cut the shingles at an angle. The shake steps are usually 16 to 18 " long with 4" on the deck and 4" on the wall.

Hope this helps.


Keith

Ed the Roofer

They look like they will be your typical hip style bay roof bump outs.

On the sloped vertical roof to wall tie-ins, there is nothing unusual about running standard baby tin step flashings under the shingles and flush to the wall as on any other vertical roof to wall junction. The only tricks would be the bottom baby tin should be angled as a kick out flashing to shed the water away from the wal and siding and that the top most baby tin needs to be cut with tin snips and I usually double it up with a back up tin with the angle cut opposite of the first angle. They sell pre-fab kick out flashings if your guy does not know how to simply fabricate one in the field out of standard baby tins. If you need some links to this product, I just got done posting them on another roofing forum and a home inspector forum 2 days ago, so I have them readily available to find.

Regarding the top baby tin step flashings and how I cut them to be water tight, it is hard to explain, but easy to show or do. Top baby tin gets a 45* cut facing the higher portion of the flashing, Then, I add a secon baby tin directly on top of that, with a 45* cut facing downward to the roof slope. I also insert a dollup of NP 1, Geocel or Vulkem caulking sealant at this pin hole juncture.

On the horizontal run, a typical roof to wall, aka, apron flashing can be install, which will wind up on top of the last course of shingles. I always use a color coordinated pre-painted finish sheet metal. to either match the shingle color or to match the siding color, whichever would saeem most aestheticaly pleasing. The horizontal flashing should extend past the pitch break transition, so that a simple cut with tin snips can be made, for the last 3" to 6" can follow down the slope, ever so slightly.

One final point. Prior to installing any shingles on those roof sections, I always at least minimally install a section of Grace Ice and Water Shield which traverses from the roof deck sheathing to the wall. Usually, since the square footages are so small, I completely encapsulate the entire bay roof deck along with that roof to wall detail also, to ensure no leakage problems ever down the road.

Ed

P.S.
Although RoofBoys description of how to conceal the horizontal section of flashing can be done, I find that using a color coordinated sheet metal does not leave an undesireable affect.

I am unsure if your roofer installed all of the flashings as exposed, or just the horizontal section.

Plus, the amount that extends onto the top of the last course of shingles can be adjusted to minimize its potential awkward looking appearance.

neolitic

Personally those pics leave me confused,
but that's not hard to do.
I think that what Ed is calling apron flashing
is also called porch flashing.
What he described is pretty much what I
do as well, but if colored stock doesn't
fill the bill, this might be a good spot to
spring for copper.
It seems to sell its self as a class accent
rather than a detraction.
If I understand what your guy did,
or wants to do...no class there at all.

Ed,
Don't be stingy with the links!

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tnt specialty

Real simple......adhere a course over the completed detail...(no nails).

oldfrt

We've used this approach ,but had I&W applied first under the shingles and up the wall to seal nail holes.

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Ed the Roofer

Here is a link to a good guide to kick out flashings and where they promote better roof drainage, without encoaching the exterior wall cladding materials.

http://www.ibacos.com/pubs/RoofFlashingGuidelines.pdf

And here is a link to a site showing damage that occurrs from improper flashing installations, by not utilizing a kick out flashing.

http://www.kickout.info/gallery.html

and another site:

http://paragoninspects.com/kickout-flashings-faq-home-inspections-evanston-chicago-il.html

and one more with the DryFlekt product gallery and examples of damage, especially behind siding products.

http://www.dryflekt.com/

Ed

wackman

This is what I'm planning to do. I just want to know the best way to hide these flashings so I can make sure we don't really see them on the next one.

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wackman

Ok, here are a few more pics. The first two are from a little ways away for reference. Specifically I'm talking about the porch roof joining with the bay window bump outs on the front of the house.

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wackman

Don't get me wrong. It's not like they used the white side out or anything.

I just think it shouldn't have been visible at all. Not right in the front of the house like that, in a spot that you can easily see from the street, from my other house next doors porch and living room windows, or from the bay windows themselves.

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neolitic

It's hard for me to see much there,
but it looks like your roofer is
in over his head here. I can't see
anything good about what he did there.
That is a fairly tricky detail for a guy
with limited experience and imagination.
One of you needs to go to school
on this one, and I for one don't think
there is an easy fix for what he's done there.

One vote for tear it off and start it right.

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wackman

What do you guys think would be the best way to make sure these aren't seen next time and is this (the way it's currently done) what you'd consider industry standard?

I want to know if they were kinda sloppy here and are now telling me it's not possible to hide it to cover their sloppy asses, or is what I'm asking for above and beyond?

If I want it to be hidden and that's asking for more than industry standard then I'd expect to pay extra for it. I just need to know the score.

Depending on what part of town I build this house (and consequently what upgrades I add in) it'll sell for anywhere between 500k-1.5 mil. Here 500k is still a rather expensive home and if I was the buyer I wouldn't like seeing the flashing when it could just be clean.

Wack

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neolitic

I hope you hear from Ed, Grumpy, Tinner, etal.
But I don't see anything right in those
pictures.
I would expect an exposed porch flashing (maybe
copper) on the first two walls, and step on the last.
But none of it has to be that ugly to be right.

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A W Smith

Wow thats ugly. I would have cut that wall angle into very long angled steps and interleaved it into the shingle courses. I would have pinned that last course on top as well. looks like a quick and dirty we are running late get the check and run type of job. If it were mine i would say. Gotta come off.

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oldfrt

I'll take back my previous post suggestion now that I've seen
those pics.

We would have used a longer step flashing along the angled walls of the bay/porch roof intersection.
On the front of the bay,a layer of shingles can cover the flashing if you need to hide it.

We always apply I&W before all flashing details as a temporary dry-in procedure and second layer of defense against leaks.

We also like to see the I&W and/or flashing run right up to the bottom of the windows if they are within 10"to12" above the roof line.

The open valley and side wall flashing detail looks like an after thought. If step flashing was used this would not look so half-azzed.
Not industry standard.


Shoooot,
Got me by about 20 sec,there Smitty.

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A W Smith

The laminations lining up looks like hell as well. The guys not paying attention. As soon as you slap the shingle down before you even nail it you should see theres a problem when it looks just like the course underneath it

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reveivl

The horizontal gets the apron, (stick on another course to hide it if you don't want to see it), everything else should be stepped, and what was he thinking with that valley tail?

If the sloped flashing detail has nothing else happening that we can't see then it is not going to stop wdr.

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big steve

I always run ice and water sheid at least 12" up the wall There should be step flashing on the angled sections and i do the horizontal flashing with colored metal to match the roof allowing it to stand out 1 1/4 "past the bottom of the siding with an extra downward bend about 1/2" from edge to keepnice and crisp lines

Slyfox

All the metal work in those pictures looks kinda bad to me including the bottom of the valley detail.
Not to mention it looks like they gun nailed the wall metal which that alone in my opinion is a big no no.

far as the walls go if it were my job,
i would place strip of i&w 6" up the wall and 12" out on the deck,
use over sized step flashings "like anderson sky lights have" weaving them in just like it was a normal wall except for taking extra care that none shows at the bottom end of any courses,
than run a min 6" strip of i&w on the wall lapping the step flashings by no less than 2".
Far as the header walls, simply adhere a tab along it.

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