Roof Replacment

Ken@K&R

Has anyone ever did a roof tear off without replacing the old tar paper with new? Im asking because another GC mentioned that he only replaced it if it was needed. I have never herd of this. Seems like it would always be needed. How can the old shingles be removed without tearing the old paper? How many nail holes would be left open at 4 per shingle. We always use new 30# felt and 6 nails per shingle.

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Ken

Tom R

No, never heard of it, - - shame the guy would 'dog' homeowners like that for mere (fractions of) pennies on the dollar.

Ken@K&R

That's what I was thinking. I mean 15# felt is like $15 a roll. I can't even believe he would admit to doing that. The way he said it seemed like he dosent even know it's not the right way.

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Ken

Teetorbilt

Old felt goes brittle. The odds of doing a tearoff without damaging the felt is astronomical. Time to go to roofer 'B'.

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Grumpy

I've seen it doenk but my god! What are you saving by not replacing the felt paper? Heck it's probablyt aking you more time being careful not to tear off the old than it would take to tear it off and refelt. Not to mention it's totally useless with millions of holes and tears. Finally how can you correct damaged wood if you can't see it?

THis other GC sounds like a hack.

joasis

Definately a real money saver. I have seen a roof tearoff that left the paper relatively intact. They used 1 inch nails and only hit the shingles like 3 times...it just literally peeled up. We install new felt, but we are only doing metal.

Slightly on a tangent, I noticed driving by a job site where a new bank was being built, they put house wrap on the roof..it is getting a standing seam, roof, but I had never seen house wrap used....and I can't see a reason why not.

I really liked the tri-flex type products...a big improvement over felt...but so treacherous to walk on. We used it on a few roofs and then back to felt.

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Grumpy

I ice shield the entire roof when we do metal.

AaronB.

I do not believe this necessary. Most situations do not require any ice shield for metal roofing. Not all metal systems are meant for all applications, either.

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Grumpy

Yeah Aaron, I agree. A low slope flat seam metal roof with all soldered seams probably doesn't need any ice shield. However in a metal roof it's real real easy to bury the cost of ice shield into the project, and it allows me to sleep better at night, so why not? Plus it's a one two punch, and allows me to "claim" that my system is better than the person I am bidding against.

dougger222

Weren't you two saying it was also overkill to ice and water a flat roof prior to base sheet and torch down? Good idea to me, overkill? Perhaps but still a good idea. I just tore two layers off my 8sq 8/12 garage and ice and water'ed the whole thing. Overkill? Yup, but it shouldn't leak!!!

I wonder how many nails or staples one would go over if re-using the old felt? How do you tear off the whole house without ripping the felt? Pull the shingles loose by hand? Tearing off the felt to inspect the decking is a no brainer.

Grumpy

Ya got me Dougger!

Yes it was me and Aaron who said it is not necessary to ice shield a flat roof. Really there is no reason. Aaron also said it is not necessary to ice shield a metal roof, and again, really there is no reason. The real reason I ice shield a metal roof is I'm just not confident in them, because it's not my specialty and it's easy to bury the cost in metal whereas it's not so easy in flat.

Glasshousebltr

Only twice did I see the felt undamaged on tear off. A stapled modular, the roofing rolled up like carpet, and an elderly couple in St Louis, that one, I still haven't figured out.

However, new felt both times.

Bob

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Bob

red_cedar

Ice and water shield has its place and I feel it is not for entire roofs.
The roof will not breath and moisture will cause problems...dry rot the decking and condensation.
Dry rot the deck on metal and the fasteners ( screws ) loose there holding power. I always suggest ....do not ice and water the roof the entire roof. I am sure most of you roofers out there have seen how plywood looks after 20 yrs with an asphalt shingle.
I have ice and water sheild flat roofs. small ones. ( 400ft ).
Only because they are usualy with metal roofs and I try to extend any flat roofing longevity,( EPDM) venting needs to be taken into consideration though.
Flat roofs do not need it. I done plenty without ice and water with no problems at all.

IMO

AaronB.

Not only overkill, but 100% useless. Ice barriers will not keep water out that is left to set on them. They will leak at the seams. This is why SA have to have a good pitch, or even they are no good.

Under metal? If you examine the nature of metal roofing, ice cannot penetrate with or without the sticky stuff. Also completely useless except at the gutter edge if using an overhanging panel. What it will do is keep condensation on the back of the panels off the plywood, but so does 30#.

The idea is not to rely on remedial solutions, but to install watertight roofing systems, sticky or no sticky. This really IS a skilled trade if done properly.

__________________
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Seamless Industrial and Commercial Roofing Systems, Residential Repair. For Those That Demand Quality!
Free roof inspections within 12 miles of our locale.

River Rat Dad

I am currently tearing off a 14 year old Certainteed Independance roof. One layer installed with staples, #30 felt. I methodically tear down poping the staples as i go and basically removing whole shingles. The felt is laying there like its brand new, except the staple holes. I then just peel up large runs of felt by hand.
So I'm removing the felt but its virtually undamaged.

Lab Rat

If you take the time to not tear or rip the tar paper when taking
off a roof then you have too much time on you hands, Replace
it, The Customer wants a new roof, give it to them!!! Not a
Save $50.00 roof and then hope it will last. do it right every time
and not think about it again.

Tom R

That says it all!!

MJW

It's not that tough to not damage the paper, unless the roof is 20+ years old. I have done a lot of tear offs that the shingles were under 10 years old. This is due to hail damage or wind damage. The paper underneath is like brand new. Not everyone starts tearing at the top and slams it down the roof and onto the ground like a farmer pitchin' manure. I would rather do a cleaner job and have less clean up.
Most of the time, we roll up the tarpaper and toss it into the dumpster after pulling all the nails. Nice and clean. An hour or so and we have a like new roof deck and everything in the dumpster.

J&MHRS

You should always put new felt down as well as ice and water if a customer wants me to skip any of the underlayment or flashing or drip i tell them to look for someone else
There is only one way and thats the right way
If you don't do it right them why even do it....