Roof Hacks.......OMG

mikeybobo

I got into a conversation with my neighbor today about his roof that was just redone which is leaking along the bottom edge. He came over saying that there was water coming in around some of his windows. We have had a lot of snow and then warm weather the past few days and all I've heard about is the ice damns people have been having, so I just assumed it was an ice damn in the gutters. Its a low roof, so I took my ladder over to take a peek with him, and I couldnt believe what I saw. They didnt put the undercoarse run under the first run of shingles.... not even any iceshield or tar paper, not that thats right anyway...... just dripcap, and start shingling. Now is it just me or is the water just going to go in the slots (3tabs) and go under the drip edge, and off the plywood, behind the facia, into the soffit, ect ect you get the picture. WTF?????? I asked who did this *&%$# hack of a roof, and he said some company, I cant even remeber the name, but it was something handyman out of newburgh (NY). He said he went with them because they promised to get the roof done in 2 days, where his other choice said between 3 and 4 days. All he had to do was provide material and lunch hahahahaa. I'm telling you this guy went to the local laborer curb in newburgh and picked 2 guys up. He said one spoke broken english and the other none. I'm tellin you these guys hadn't a clue what they were doing. coarses are not straight to the drip edge, I mean come on! I asked how much shingles he bought at it was 21 squares with 4 bundles left over. So 20 squares basically. Now I'm not a roofer, so I dont know how long it should take, but isnt 20 squares in 2 days for 2 guys not realistic? The roof has nothing on it, no valleys ect. just straight run. I havent roofed in a while but if I remember correctly I put on 4 square a day. I could be wrong about that, I cant remember really, I dont roof often. What is the normal amount layed in a day by two guys? I dont know what he's going to do, I told him to call the guy back. I'm not gonna touch it with a 40 foot pole

doubleaction

If it is a walkable pitch and not cut up 2 decent roofers could do 20sq in 2 days. I expect to do at least 10 sq a day tear off and lay with another roofer.

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mikeybobo

it is a walkable pitch and not cut up at all. I guess I'm just slow

Grumpy

I usually figure one square per man hour for a one layer off and on.

So this guy went with the cheapst bidder and now he's goign to have to pay twice for the roof because its' got to be replaced. If you do get involved bit a rip and repalce and you supply the material

reveivl

I'm gettin' to be an old fart, and don't focus on roofing although do a fair bit. I can put down 1-1/2 sq/hr of archs, 3 tab are slower for me (and pretty much non-existent around here now) 'cos you got to line them up vertically as well.

Grumpy has it, bid for a re and re. The existing roof is a failure.

ps. Paragraphs are your friends.

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mikeybobo

thats exactly what he did grumpy, went with the cheap fast method and got what he paid for I feel bad for him, but I dont know what he's going to do. I dont have time to do the roof as a side job or I would because I'm renovating my own house. I work for a contractor, not on my own and our company "doesnt do roofing" due to insurance reasons. I dont even live in the area I comute to work to, so I dont really even have any advice on who to hire in my own area. I'm just going to give him the number of the roofer we use at work i guess.

MJW

Another case of "who to blame?"

Is it the hacks or is it the cheap homeowner. Insurance, tools, ability to speak English, who needs that? It's just a simple roof, right???

These stories need to get passed around. Too much of this goes unpunished.

thom

Don't feel bad for him. He didn't get what he wanted, he did get what he paid for.

Now he needs to look for additional damage that needs repair as a result of the last "repair". He should check the following for damage/failure:
...roof sheathing
...fascia
...soffits

maceycon

How can you feel bad for him? The more this happens to people maybe they will stop going after the lowest price all the time.

The only thing worse than getting beat by the lowest price is doing a job after the guy who bid the lowest price. Now the homeowners thinks every contractor is an incompetent thief and they are over your shoulder and questioning everything you do

Grumpy

Naaa people never learn. I can't tell you the number of times I have been in your shoes biding to repalce a completely hacked up roof job and when present the price the customer tells me I am way too high, that they paid half what I am asking the first time and that other guys are less than me... This happens a few times each year where I am exactly in your shoes and I get this response.

It used to sicken me. Now I take pleasure from rubbing it in their face... "Yes you paid half what I am asking but look what you got. Do you REALLY want to relive this and pay a 3rd time?" I've come to the conclusion that these people are masicasts (sp?). They enjoy self torture and surround themselves with drama. They constantly repeat the wheel of hiring bad contractors then think ALL contractors are bad because they hire low ball hacks.

Burby

It's not just on roofs or cheap H/Os, or one's with proper lisc & ins.
It is like this pic, the contractor did the work, he was lisc, insured, (at the time), he just did what the seller told him to do & left the rest. The buyer wanting to be able to open & close her window as one should.
After attempts to get the Contractor back because it still would not operate as should, with the pic of a Contractor working on this at time of the Home inspection & pic is included in H/I report, this is what the buyer was left with when she hired me to correct the problem & I removed the exterior trim.
I do so much work that finds similar results completed by others.
I agree there are those that just do not want to pay & look for the cheapest way out, but how can a contractor sleep at night working like this. I could not be hurting for money enough to do work even remotely close to this & have turned down so many jobs where the H/O said if wood decay is discovered while doing a window or door R&R did not want to do the wood decay repair. I tell then to hire another & leave.

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odellconstruct

wow .. right in my back yard doesnt suprise me .. i see so many guys usung cheap labor here its crazy .. but it sounds like he didnt have a clue what he was doing .. where is job located ? newburgh

hell i can do a 24 sq 1 layer rip off ice n water felt drip in 2 days my self on a just about any ranch .. providing underlayment is good ..

MALCO.New.York

I often wonder about the Square Per Man Per Day rates the others talk of.........

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odellconstruct

that would be interesting .. im sure age .. and other factors will hinder some .. im 36 and i know i wont be doing jobs like that verry long take advantage now .. there starting to hurt afterwards

MALCO.New.York

2 days in sequence for hard work is my max. I need a day or two to recover!

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Burby

I can do 40 suares per day, strip & install.

Of course my roofer has one hell of a large & great crew, they look like ants on a ant hill.. hahahaha
Sometimes depending on repairs needed it can run into the next morning, but that is it, clean up is included in that as well.

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MALCO.New.York

Well! There you go. A Realistic rate! A bit on the High/Machine Man side, but realistic!

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Grumpy

What is it that you wonder?

Grumpy

If you do it every single day you get used to the work and get fast. If you do roofing one day and porches the next obviously you'll get less practice than someone who does roofing every day 6 days a week 12 hours a day for 5 years.

My guys are faster than I ever was or ever could be.

odellconstruct

3 tab or arct..?