Re - Roofing X%!^&@

BamBamm5144

Great Videos.

That Tamko 15 lb felt is good stuff.

2ndGen

Never heard of a "heavy 15#" felt paper.

If it was heavier than 15#, then wouldn't it "not" be 15# anymore?

If it's as strong as 30# and provides all of the same benefits (if not, more),
then it would definitely make sense.

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable."
Ken Hendricks
www.SolutionsRoofing.com

2ndGen

Hatchet VS Hammer:
Hatchet profile is at a slight slant which allows it to land on the pitched surface of a roof at a better angle than a hammer which is meant to strike at 90 degrees (more of the strike blow is concentrated squarely on the nail head driving it in far easier and more accurately).

Even though I mostly gun, I will always do a few shingles (if not a square or two) with my hatchet "jussst" to keep that feel familiar to me. I like it. It's meditative.

Hatchet has shorter handle for close quarter swinging and is more head heavy.

I've found several roofing specific uses for the hatchet that makes it better suited than a hammer (cutting surface works great to pry apart shingles in repair work and to work up flashing).



Gauge on the gun...
I've just started to use it after years and years of using guns.
Now, using the gauge helps eliminate one a few more seconds of thinking with every shingle (and at the end of the day, those seconds add up).

Plus, it's idiot proof. I don't have to "see" it perfectly. I just make sure the gauge is butted up to the shingle below the one I'm installing and let the other one land on it and that's it...a perfectly placed shingle without any thought. It took me some getting used to (adding another step to my technique), but the step pays off.

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable."
Ken Hendricks
www.SolutionsRoofing.com

Grumpy

I'll personally use the gauge on my gun, although I do not require it of my guys if they can keep it straight by eye. Occassionally we'll also snap a line ot make sure we're not losing it. I like to chalk a line half way up the rafter slope to make sure it's not running off, we then have half the slope to fix it if it is. Fixing it in 20 runs can't be detected by eye. Fixing it in 3 runs will be highly visible.

NormW

I confess to being naive on roofing...

Is it ok to stagger just two rows of shingles, and work up the roof, like they where showing in bwalley's video?

2ndGen

If you mean racking vs stacking, either way is ok.

Regions/manufacturers will determine what's best for them.

I prefer to rack them (going "up" the roof from eave to rake).

I have no problem with stacking (going horizontally), but for me, it's faster to rack 'em.

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable."
Ken Hendricks
www.SolutionsRoofing.com

MJW

Racking voids warranty on most laminates.

2ndGen

CetainTeed (the only manufacturer I install) stands behind their products being racked as long as they are installed to spec. Gotta like that kind of confidence.

I heard one manufacturer's reasons for not allowing racking include;

*discoloration in shingle batches being more noticeable (manufacturer defect which shouldn't be installed on roof in first place and besides, I've seen discolored shingles on both racked and stacked roofs)

*installers many miss nailing 1 nail (installer failure not due to racking itself)

*if installed in cold weather, shingle may become brittle or fail when lifted to insert other shingle under (if it's that cold, nobody should be installing shingles anyway).

If a company (in my opinion) won't warranty their products based on those criteria, then I wouldn't use them anyway.

Think about it, if it's good enough for a 3-Tab shingle and it's been done for a century (I remember tearing off 3-Tab roofs that were 40 years old when I was a kid), why would it be any "less" ok for a shingle that not only has keys, but that has about 50% more material on it?

It all boils down to liability issues. Some companies just put up as many excuses as possible to "not" stand behind their products.

Good product + professional installer = a great roof.




[I always confuse the 2...racking vs stacking. ]

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable."
Ken Hendricks
www.SolutionsRoofing.com

BamBamm5144

I call them it stacking or stepping. Actually went to an inspection today on a roof that is perhaps the worst install I have ever seen. The "rack" was a whole two inches but it has been on nearly 10 years and has not yet leaked. I also agree with MJW. I have never put dimensional on the same way as 3 tab although like 2ndGen says, I am sure it is fine if done properly.

MJW

With a laminate, there is more shingle for the wind to catch and lift the entire shingle. That is why racking is ok on tabbed shingles. Still not the recommended method for most shingles. Are you sure Certainteed will warranty a racked Landmark roof? I'm calling BS on that one. It doesn't even list it as an alternate method. We have handled claims with laminates that were installed incorrectly (racked) and the warranty was void.

According to IRC code, they have to be stair stepped. Every inspector and Rep we have talked to says racking is not allowed with laminates.

MJW

double post

2ndGen

Stacking is "smarter".

It's more installer friendly.

Less waste.

But, in the hands of a traditional Roofer,
racking is superior as far as production goes.

Today, I laid up 5 squares (walkable, over felted ply) in just over an hour before the rain got to us early in the morning and that was while teaching the 2 helpers I had with me.

For a guy who prefers to stack them, he could do the same.



It's personal preference IMO.

Could someone under the same conditions stack 5 squares in just over an hour? Of course...but not me. Well, I guess I could if I really wanted to, but I just can't see myself really wanting to stack shingles!

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable."
Ken Hendricks
www.SolutionsRoofing.com

2ndGen

Yes.




Better yet, "call" CertainTeed Tech on that one: 1 (800) 233-8990

I did (just to confirm that it was still allowed).



To CertainTeed?





Where?




Including CertainTeed's?

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable."
Ken Hendricks
www.SolutionsRoofing.com

MJW

Maybe you won't need it, but good luck passing an inspection (if you have them) and good luck with a wind warranty claim. Next time, ask the Rep, not the tech line about warranty. The Rep handles warranty within the first year. After that you send in the shingles and/or pictures.

2ndGen

Does this mean that you're "not" going to answer my questions?

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable."
Ken Hendricks
www.SolutionsRoofing.com

MJW

Yes, Certainteed rep. His name is Howie. I should clarify that it voids the wind warranty.

The IRC code states that the shingles are to be installed according to manufacturer installation instructions. No where in the MSA does it mention racking as a method for Landmarks.

2ndGen

And nowhere is it forbidden. At least, not in writing. I can't say what is "implied" or verbally communicated. Also, the CertainTeed Shingle Applicator's Manual in Chapter 12 on Page# 121 states that stacking is "one" method of installing Landmarks (not the only method).





I remember having this exact same exchange with someone last year here.
I asked them to provide any documentation or at least a reference that stated that a warranty would be voided if the Landmarks were racked.

Ah yes! It was here and guess who it was...you! And it's the same argument...that racking is "not" forbidden! But don't take my word for it:









Matter of fact, same question remains:

http://www.contractortalk.com/f15/ra...45/#post401332




By the way...
1. Did you call CertainTeed and ask them what their policy is regarding racking Landmarks (if they'd warranty the work provided that it was installed to their specifications)?

2. Did you personally ever have any CertainTeed work refused a warranty because the shingles were racked (the claims that you handled)?





http://www.contractortalk.com/f15/ra...45/#post401332

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable."
Ken Hendricks
www.SolutionsRoofing.com

mikec

2cndgen, do you have an older installers manual?
On page 121 chapter 12 of mine it discusses installing cap.
In chapter 12 'Landmark chapter, it shows 2 ways to install, and both are stacking (booking).

Type 1 is cutting 7" and 14" then using the 2 pieces for the top 2 starters.
Type 2 is cutting 6" and 11" then using the pieces.

No where in my Certainteed book does it say racking is allowed with Landmarks.

MJW

Like I said before 2ndgen, it doesn't say "not" to install them upside down either, but no one does it. Is there a sign on the roads that say "no driving on left side of road"? No! Instructions are made to tell you how to do something, not 'what not to do'.

With your thinking on this, we could install siding from the top down, and windows in upside down, and no one could tell us we are wrong because "it doesn't say not to".

I was right last year about this and I'm right this time.

2ndGen

No...I got it off of CertainTeed's site.

(Instructions for installing Landmarks).

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable."
Ken Hendricks
www.SolutionsRoofing.com