Re - Roofing X%!^&@

We Fix Houses

Long story short.....my brother has one of these large houses with high slope roofing. It's going to be replaced with a first class job. He's talked to a couple of roofing contractors who are doing similar work in the neighborhood and who have been in business for several years. Really got some conflicting input so I said I would try to get it straightened out here. It'll be a complete tear off going back with an architectural shingle.

Tear - Off
One contractor says he tears off the shingles but leaves the paper and then applies the new shingles over it. This is insane too me...Anybody ever heard of this ?

Hand Nail - Gun Nail
One contractor says he only hand nails. Others say they use the gun. What's the difference ? Any comments on staples ? Anybody still stapling ?

Peel 'N Stick
This high slope roof has a lot of valleys. There is existing p 'n s. Can you leave it or it should come up up and apply new. Is it difficult to pull up or any problem going over it or its remnants ? I would think any nail heads need to be removed under the new appl. I told my brother to anticipate an answer to leave it, have the crew inspect it, so on. Please advise the correct approach.

Thanks

Steve

dougger222

It's best to tear off the felt to inspect the decking. Done a lot of tear offs though were we had to tear off two or more layers of felt. Did one last year that had two layers of 30 pound on it. Speaking of felt make sure they use a good fiberglass felt or a synthetic.

Hand nails and gun nails is up to the roofer. There are still some that staple. I used to staple and the hundreds of roofs stapled never had blow offs with winds within the warranty specs. As a matter of fact did some roofs with both and twice with high wind blow offs the nailed shingles blew off. One roof had both nails and staples on the back the nailed shingles let loose.

Make sure they pull all the fasteners prior to installing new underlayment.

Renegade

Usually hard to leave the felt in a tearoff anyways. Always best to start with a clean, visible deck. Recommend pulling and not pounding nails but it doesn't hurt to pound them as long as they are solid. Any bent nail should be pulled and not pounded.

A good 30# felt and ice/water in valleys and eaves. No need for anything more in underlayment. They may actually have an issue with getting the existing ice/water removed so if you trust them, I'd leave that to their discretion.

Dougger, you must be one of the few conscientious staplers around if your roofs stay on. I always tell HO's around here "if they mention stapling the shingles, send them away". Nailed only, hand nailing is more accurate but there is nothing wrong with a nail gun, either way the quality isn't in the method, it's in the person holding the gun or hatchet. Steep slope I recommend extra nails. Do they even warranty stapled roofs still? I didn't think they did.

LA_nailer

TAMKO does. But i don't know anyone who still uses staples though...

dougger222

I haven't stapled a shingle down in 6-7 years. My first 5 years did staple every roof. When they were installed with staples they were always done right.

A staple installed in the right spot is better than a nail either shot too high or too deep.

Don't touch the 30 pound organic felt, 15 pound fiberglass only.

Slyfox

Re-roof / Tear Off:
1) Remove existing roofing materials.
2) Replace / repair decking if needed.
3) Install new underlayment (ice & water shield and felt paper).
4) Replace eave, valley, wall, chimney and pipe flashings.
5) Replace ventilation units (louver or ridge vents)
6) Make sure proper ventilation is installed.
7) Install new roof system.
8) Clean-up of all debree from old and new materials and haul them away.


Proper placement of fasteners is what determines the quality, not what type you use. All tho staples have been outlawed in many areas i work/have worked in, they are still exceptable in others.

If you plan on using some thing like tile, slate or metal roof system, than what type of felt you use is important, for shingles, 30# organic or fiberglas either or is all you need, either one will last the life span of an average shingle roof.

__________________

dougger222

Certainteed allows staples for the low end shingles but for the Super Shangles you have to use nails or the warranty is void.

Had a few engineers recently that thought staples would hold better than nails. Had to tell them we don't staple anymore, sorry!

MJW

Used to staple also. Had 90+ mph winds and never lost a 3-tab. Staples aren't legal here anymore, but yes, Certainteed allows them.

We always tear off the shingles separate from the tar paper. Then we roll it up or leave it down. How can it hurt??? Any good roofer can notice a bad spot in the sheathing without even going on the roof(not all situations, but most). In certain cities we have to pull it up, and the sheathing is inspected for nailing. On a new house they don't require this, just on a tear off. Kind of rediculous, but there are a lot of fly-by-nighters out there making it tough for us.

I agree with Doug on the underlayment. Yes we've all used the cheap 15 lb., but the new Select or GAF shingle mate is hard to beat. That stuff lays flat and is tough! Much, much better, but I rarely depend on underlayments for the waterproofing. We don't even use tar or caulking. It's just common sense with building, engineering, and shingling, and you won't have any worries.

dougger222

I like to use caulk under the ring on the heating stack.

aegisroofing

Exactly and staples should be outlawed everywhere.

__________________
Best,
Todd Strickland
AeGis Roofing
Roof Repair or Replacement

smeagol

douger how slippery is fiberglass felt? couger paws work on it? thanks

Grumpy

DOn't reuse the felt paper. I use 30# and it's something like $15 a roll off the top of my head. A roll of 30# is 2 squares, 15# is 4 squares. What are you really saving? IMO the guy reusing the felt is a hack. There I said it. It's been discussed here before.

I have no problem with gun nailing. Yes it's a little easier to make a mistake but if you have workers who care about quality the roof will be just fine. I never picked up a roofing gun until I started my business 6 years ago. Before that it was all hand nailing. Staples are not allowed by code here, but I still see it, mostly by out of state crews, and they still sell the staples so someone's using them.

By PNS I am assuming you mean peel and stick, and assuming by that you mean ice shield... If the ice shield can't be removed, and sometimes it can't without removing the wood, if it is smooth and even it can be left in place. BUT if you have 3' of ice shield, you're goign to have to go back with wider so that at the edges you are adhering to the wood. However if the whingles are stuck to the ice shield, which happens often with Grace on a poorly ventilated roof then the wood will need to be replaced. Sure you can go over, but I do not think you will like the results.

XanadooLTD

I have never heard anyone not take the old felt off. The reason that they hand nail is that the workers rarely set the depth right and they shoot right through the shingles. Hand nailin lets you get it right. I know a lot of guys too that can hand nail faster than guns. Its pretty sweet to see.

reveivl

I'd have to see that to believe it.

(You all know this is an old thread, yes?)

__________________
From where does knowledge come? If you need to know what is in a box, you could ask someone (not reliable), you could pray, (not useful), you can consult with the scripture (not helpful) or you could open the box (science)

BamBamm5144

Perhaps a guy can hand nail faster than a guy with a gun for a few minutes or even an hour but day after day? I doubt it and I will challenge anyone who says so. Yes, the nails will all be on the line and driven flush. Physically it is impossible.

2ndGen

All the paper must come off.



Hand Nail:
The best way.

Gunning It:
The faster way (just will need to have roofers with integrity doing the work who'll nail down any proud nails and make sure they nail twice where a nail might have been overdriven).


When I install a new roof, everything comes up (even the metal).

The only metal I leave would be dormer/shed flashings and chimney flashings and that's only IF they were not damaged during the removal of the existing shingles.

Sometimes, you'll have a nice chimney flashing job that's tight enough to last for a hundred years...no sense in undoing that quality of work.

My 2 pennies.

PS...anybody that talks about leaving anything behind besides chimney flashings or step flashings that are in perfect condition and that will out last the life of the roof (copper) aren't worth considering.

They probably aren't Roofers, but Roofers/Siders/Gutterers/Window/Door/Decking/Dog Walking/Babysitting/Car Washing guys.

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable."
Ken Hendricks
www.SolutionsRoofing.com

2ndGen

BINGO!

I only use 30# felt.

Costs twice as much per job, but it doesn't break when you handle it,
it's easier to cut (not physically easier, but it doesn't rip apart when cutting it),
it'll take a roofing nail capless & T-50 staples (for drying in)
to hold it down while you cap it off plus it's beefier,
it'll hold up to rain/wind/sun far better than 15# felt would "if" it had to be exposed
(which I personally don't like to do, but just in case...)
and it'll just be a better material to go over with the roof.

And, it's far sturdier to walk on.

Personally, we I prefer to shingle in what I tear-off so that I don't even have to worry about overnight exposure, rain, storms or having to go crazy fastening it because it just has to be in place just long enough for my shingles to cover it.

It seems that Roofers use 30# and General Contractors use 15#.

It's all about the pennies when their not the ones installing the stuff themselves.

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable."
Ken Hendricks
www.SolutionsRoofing.com

2ndGen

I've never seen a guy hand nail faster than a gunner.

Period.

Even a lowly laborer can fly with a gun.

It (like shingling with a hatchet) takes time, but once up to speed, a good shingler with a gun can literally nail off a shingle in one full second.

Even the fastest hand nailer couldn't keep that up for more than a few minutes.


Fast hand nailing done wrong:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnBpT...eature=related

Gun nailing done wrong:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVNnU...eature=related

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable."
Ken Hendricks
www.SolutionsRoofing.com

TimelessQuality

Have you tried the heavy 15#? My yard calls it 'astm 15'. Tamko. It's thick and heavy like 30#...

Costs a little more than standard 15 or 30, but it's 4 sq/ roll (it's a bigger roll), so it works out cheaper than 30 (2 sq/roll).. It's all I'll use anymore..

__________________
-Steve

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science." ~ Albert Einstein

bmaurice

Hahaha thoughs videos made me laugh.

I have never used a hatchet, what do you get out of it? nor do i use the key gauge on the bottom of the gun. i just rely on my eyes to keep me straight and occasionly ill snap a line to get perfect.