Racking VS Stacking...

2ndGen

...Shingles.
What's your preferene and why?

I rack'em.
Always have.
Never had any problems.

I don't like stacking them because I'm not used to it and I'm pretty much set in my ways. I don't find it to be any faster than racking them.

What say ye?

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable."
Ken Hendricks
www.SolutionsRoofing.com

roofwiz74

you aren't supposed to rack alot of shingles.they don't even like three tabs racked

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2ndGen

I've been on both types of jobs where shingles were stacked & racked.
It always boiled down to the crew.

We had a 50 man crew out in San Diego shingling a military base with Timberlines. They were being stacked. The weak crews had them all over the place. The good crews kept them in line.

Same deal with a 3 tab job with 150' runs I did for a contractor in Upstate New York. But there, we racked them. We still kept them straight.

It boils down to pesonal preference. I've just never seen a good reason to go or not go either way.

Do you prefer stacking? Why?

For me, I'm faster when I rack them and I have to stop less to adjust myself (hose, shingles, etc...).

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable."
Ken Hendricks
www.SolutionsRoofing.com

2ndGen

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable."
Ken Hendricks
www.SolutionsRoofing.com

johnk

Racking is alot less back and forth,back and forth.Stacking is the way I do all my shingles now.I've done both and I stack because I'm used to that method.Some people say you can see the lines in a racking pattern but Ive never noticed that in any I've done.To each their own

MJW

It goes against installation instructions and the MSA book. Racking is not the correct way. Have replaced plenty of roofs that were racked and they were always trouble. Easy to tear off though. It's not a preference, here it's actually a code with multi-layer shingles.

A W Smith

three tabs I do this way

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Al Smith
http://www.awsmith.com

MALCO.New.York

I know NOTHING!

+ YouTube Video

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A W Smith

laminates I do this way

__________________
Al Smith
http://www.awsmith.com

MALCO.New.York

That is EXACTLY the argument!!! Looks quite correct to me.

__________________
Something to One may be Nothing to another!

Ultimate Wisdom---------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW-cnizLDEE

A W Smith

I like that roof ladder.

__________________
Al Smith
http://www.awsmith.com

roofwiz74

was it just the roof or do you care which way?shingle left to right,or right to left.

I guess when you are good you don't need the instructions.

Love the old ridge runner.

__________________
You have ONE advantage over me.....you can kiss my butt and I can't!!

2ndGen

Page? Section?

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable."
Ken Hendricks
www.SolutionsRoofing.com

MJW

MSA 8th edition, chapter 1 page 7 lower right hand corner. "vertical racking"

Check it out.

2ndGen

No wonder I didn't recall seeing it...it's not in the "Landmark" application section. If that's the case, it should be noted in the Landmark section that racking is not approved.

Do you see anything in the Landmark section that states that racking is unapproved?

See the confusion that ommitted statement could cause?

That wouldn't make me wrong (it's not stated in the Landmark section that racking is forbidden), nor does it make you wrong...as you were told directly (what wasn't clearly stated in a very vague statement in an unrelated section of the installation manual) by a CertainTeed Rep.

Notice that "no" specific model is mentioned in that reference you gave me? This leaves a lot of legal elbow room for lawsuits.

(I have the 8th Edition)

And thanks for taking the time to look it up for me.

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable."
Ken Hendricks
www.SolutionsRoofing.com

roofwiz74

being the zen roofer you are,don't you bond with the bundle and read it first?do you know what the back of a landmark 40 says?a good roofer would atleast skim over the bundle directions.

__________________
You have ONE advantage over me.....you can kiss my butt and I can't!!

2ndGen

Instructions? What's that?

Seriously though, I read the instructions yeeeeeaaaarrrrrssss ago.
Can't say the products changed that much besides the wider nailing area
and the weight & packaging (from 3 bundles to 4/sq). Oh yeah, and the tar strips at the bottoms of the shingles!
I suggested that to them when I was in my early 20's! They probably didn't get that idea from me, but hey! I prophesized it!

You must be "one" with the shingle...haohmmmmmmmmmm...

+ YouTube Video

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable."
Ken Hendricks
www.SolutionsRoofing.com

MJW

Haha, page 8 upper left hand corner.

"Roofing material installation instructions can change frequently."




"Applicators are expected to know and use the correct procedures for each product they apply"




Not trying to sound like a smarty pants. I was just lucky to have been taught the correct way to shingle when I started, and that's not racking, it's the stair step "stepped off" diagonal method.

2ndGen

Yep...like I wrote you in the other post...vague instructions completely left to our personal interpretation. It's a smart move by CertainTeed (my favorite shingle company...I install them exclusively). It puts the responsibility on the contractor (and discretion) as to what method to use.

How? If they aren't "instructed" by the "instruction" manual?

As I stated before, no where in the manual does it say that Landmark shingles cannot be racked. This would be a slam dunk case if it went to a court of law.

What would you say about the hundred or so years that shingles were racked?

Where they wrong to install them that way then and all of a sudden in modern times, we finally got it right?

The argument is like a gas vs diesel truck. Both do the same thing. Both have benefits and both have lackings. Ultimately, how they both function depends on the driver. Both will produce the same result. Which one is right depends on the driver's needs.

I'd rather go with the method that has a century of proven reliablity than to experiment with a method that hasn't even existed as long as the shingles that we are trying to warranty.

As professionals, we can't place all of our trust "in" manufacturers who come up with their specs in laboratory experiments with simulated conditions, but must base our decisions on our experience. Their number one priority legally is to minimize liablity and stacking is much easier method to do for novices guaranteeing nail placement.

I didn't use guns for 10 years after the were first becomming mainstream. I didn't (and still don't) use torch down. Torch down just didn't seem right for me (if you have to heat it extremely to lay it down, what happens in extreme cold? The opposite...and I was proven right with all the lawsuits that sprang up in the 90's).

I'm going to post a reasonable argument for either method that is pretty much the standard consensus among the industry.

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable."
Ken Hendricks
www.SolutionsRoofing.com

2ndGen

Q I’m going to shingle my new garage myself and I have a question. The directions on the shingle wrapper tell me to lay the shingles in a stairstep pattern. I’ve often seen roofers installing shingles in a straightline pattern right up to the roof peak and staggering every other row. If I use that method, will it jeopardize my shingle warranty?

A Many pros do shingle in a vertical line up the roof because it’s much faster. Known in the trade as “vertical racking” or “staggering”, this method enables the roofer to install a single column of shingles all the way to the peak, without the wasted back-and-forth motion necessary to fill several rows of stair steps. Not only that, the shingles can be piled just to the side of the column being laid. This saves a lot of time moving shingle bundles, and a lot of back strain. After completing a column, the roofer can go back down to the eave edge of the roof and start laying the next column of shingles.

Both step shingling and racking will yield a watertight roof. You won’t void your warranty by going with the racking method, but with some manufacturers, you’d have trouble collecting a settlement on two specific problems: “patterncurling” and “shadowing” (color blending).

Pattern curling is caused by the roofer having to lift the end tab of every other shingle to install the last shingle nail in the end of the next shingle (first photo). Because the bending can stress and deform shingles (especially in cold weather), the ends of those shingles may warp over time, creating a prominent pattern on the roof. If this happens, you’re out of luck collecting on a warranty if your shingle manufacturer doesn’t approve of racking.

Shadowing is the patchwork appearance caused by subtle color differences among different bundles of shingles. The problem is usually worse with racking because all the shingles from one bundle wind up in vertical rows. If the adjacent shingles come from other bundles that are a slightly different color, the roof may look patchy or even striped. The stair-step method tends to spread and mix the bundles better. Prevent shadowing by checking to make sure all the bundles have the same lot number on the wrapper, not just the same color. However, some manufacturers’ color blends are so consistent that they don’t have or need lot numbers.

Check the instructions on the shingle wrapper. Some companies make shingles that can be used with either shingling method, but they have two sets of instructions to ensure an even color pattern. If the instructions aren’t clear, call the manufacturer to find out if racking shingles is recommended or not.

http://www.rd.com/19425/article.html

This seems to be from a non-biased source (not a roofing company or a manufacturer).

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable."
Ken Hendricks
www.SolutionsRoofing.com