question regarding counter flashing - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

bmaurice · 09-16-2009, 03:01 PM

just wondering what people use to seal the the counter flashing to the chimney?

i make little led wedges to make the flashing snug in my score lines, then geocell over everyhting to make it water tight. but i hate hate how it looks even with my counter flashing cut and bent perfectly, the geocell doesnt look very profesional. constructive critism would be apreciated.

Slyfox · 09-17-2009, 03:17 PM

I always color code my caulking and only use what I need and smooth it in well to make sure I get no air bubbles. I will take a small piece of scrap metal bent in half with a tiny V cut at the end that will touch the caulk thus the bead will not spread to wide. I bend and tuck laps and corners tightly so I do not have to caulk the seams or corners going down the sides.
Most importantly "I think" is I only go as high up on the wall / chimney as I have to, the higher up a wall your metal flashing goe's the worse it will look,
on a sloped residential roof your counter flashing only needs to go 1" to 3" higher than the step flashing.

I have a couple roofs near me that I drive by daily and man they stick out like a sore thumb, the flashing is nice and tight, color coded caulking, neatly done, but they ran it like 14"'s up the sides of the chimney?

Framer53 · 09-17-2009, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmaurice

just wondering what people use to seal the the counter flashing to the chimney?

i make little led wedges to make the flashing snug in my score lines, then geocell over everyhting to make it water tight. but i hate hate how it looks even with my counter flashing cut and bent perfectly, the geocell doesnt look very profesional. constructive critism would be apreciated.

I have always used the tubes of morter to seal the counter flashing to the chimney. One other thing, I overbend it so it hugs the chimney.
Never used caulk on counter flashing.

dennis · 09-17-2009, 07:07 PM

Quote:

I have always used the tubes of morter

What are tubes of mortar? Brand? weblink?

I use mortar. Sand,lime,portland cement.

WNYcarpenter · 09-17-2009, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slyfox

I always color code my caulking and only use what I need and smooth it in well to make sure I get no air bubbles. I will take a small piece of scrap metal bent in half with a tiny V cut at the end that will touch the caulk thus the bead will not spread to wide. I bend and tuck laps and corners tightly so I do not have to caulk the seams or corners going down the sides.
Most importantly "I think" is I only go as high up on the wall / chimney as I have to, the higher up a wall your metal flashing goe's the worse it will look,
on a sloped residential roof your counter flashing only needs to go 1" to 3" higher than the step flashing.

I have a couple roofs near me that I drive by daily and man they stick out like a sore thumb, the flashing is nice and tight, color coded caulking, neatly done, but they ran it like 14"'s up the sides of the chimney?

Man, I wish I had read this a month ago. I didn't know how high to go, so I layed out my grind to match the the first step on the sides. I ended up going way too high on a 6' run. Looks like Horse crap when the light hits it right.

One thing I did to add extra protection and rigidity, is I made a shallow bend on the bottom that meets the roof....I definately have room for improvement...

kubie · 09-17-2009, 07:45 PM

we step flash the entire chimney sides and a top and bottom solid flashing, then take a grinder and grind a grove into chimney)all the way around) and use a piece of 6" metal facia and clear tar it into place. unless its a wood chimney chase that we can remove the siding and just install step flashing. Also we always make a saddle behind the chimney. I dont know why the past builders didnt have them.

bmaurice · 09-17-2009, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kubie

we step flash the entire chimney sides and a top and bottom solid flashing, then take a grinder and grind a grove into chimney)all the way around) and use a piece of 6" metal facia and clear tar it into place. unless its a wood chimney chase that we can remove the siding and just install step flashing. Also we always make a saddle behind the chimney. I dont know why the past builders didnt have them.

yes i also step flash the sides and corners and use solid flashing on front and back. i start with the front then sides finaly back so water doesnt run under everything of coarse. then i counter flash over that. but i consider it bad practice to not step the counter flashing, i think using one solid piece is more prone to leak. and i hate when guys use tar to seal it. makes it look like a horses patoot in my opinion. i do agree with you on the crickets on the back of the chimineys i always install them if needed. take an extra ten minutes.

i went to home depot tonight and fantasized at tools and also bought some tubes of morter ill tell you how i think it works out.

oldfrt · 09-17-2009, 08:42 PM

I try not to rely on any type of sealant for the waterproffing of counter flashing although I will use a colored sealant for cosmetic purposes.
I'll rake out a 1/4"wide slit 3/4" deep in the mortar and bend the top of the flashing with a V-shaped return slightly larger than the slit and 1/2" deep.
Try and keep the upper return slightly shorter than the lower,and past the face of the masonary so water can't run behind it.
The V shape will keep water from getting behind flashing.
This is forced into the slit using a stiff blade putty knife in the V.The V will try to stay open,locking it in place.
Once the flashing is flush with chim. it won't back out .
Take a sealant that matches chim. or flashing color and fill the V.

bmaurice · 09-17-2009, 08:55 PM

i think i understand what your aying. you bend the return at the height of the groove then bend the return like that > ?

oldfrt · 09-17-2009, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmaurice

i think i understand what your aying. you bend the return at the height of the groove then bend the return like that > ?

That's it,keeping the upper leg a little shorter.

I'm surprised you understood,as sometimes It's hard to explain without Pics.

AaronB. · 09-17-2009, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dennis

What are tubes of mortar? Brand? weblink?

I use mortar. Sand,lime,portland cement.

... a hawk and 3/8" marginal trowel? That'll do it.

AaronB. · 09-17-2009, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kubie

we step flash the entire chimney sides and a top and bottom solid flashing, then take a grinder and grind a grove into chimney)all the way around) and use a piece of 6" metal facia and clear tar it into place. unless its a wood chimney chase that we can remove the siding and just install step flashing. Also we always make a saddle behind the chimney. I dont know why the past builders didnt have them.

Why do you use a pre-bent fascia for your counter flashing, and what the hell is clear tar?

AaronB. · 09-17-2009, 11:17 PM

Jeez.... what ever happened to craftsmanship? Is everyone out to do everything cheaper at the expense of the reputation and the the sacrifice of the customer's well being? Are new guys just not being taught proper technique? Holy crap stains, Batman... get on the quality bandwagon and buy yourselves a copy of the NRCA roofing and waterproofing manual and learn to do some proper roofing.

The ONLY time I would ever fabricate and install a straight edge counterflashing would be at the customer's request for aestetic purposes, and would REQUIRE an underlying membrane redundancy. You guys seem to think its A-okay to screw your lifeblood (customers) like that.

Roofing school is needed in here, BIG TIME!

AaronB. · 09-17-2009, 11:22 PM

Jeez.... what ever happened to craftsmanship? Is everyone out to do everything cheaper at the expense of the reputation and the the sacrifice of the customer's well being? Are new guys just not being taught proper technique? Holy crap stains, Batman... get on the quality bandwagon and buy yourselves a copy of the NRCA roofing and waterproofing manual and learn to do some proper roofing.

The ONLY time I would ever fabricate and install a straight edge counterflashing would be at the customer's request for aesthetic purposes, and would REQUIRE an underlying membrane for redundancy. You guys seem to think its A-Okay to screw your lifeblood (customers) like that.

Roofing school is needed in here, BIG TIME!

AaronB. · 09-17-2009, 11:26 PM

AND... if I were to install a straight edge shingle abuttment counter flashing, it would cretainly NOT be a reglet mount. When you do this, it opens the customer to many years of sorrow because you're cutting into their brick waterproofing, creating a freeze/thaw scenario that will ultimately leak until the masonry is brought back to new and the counterflashing is set into mortar joint, as it SHOULD have been done in the first place.

Dennis?

lee clark · 10-08-2009, 07:42 PM

The proper advice regards the flashing issue is get a copy of the roofing and waterproofing bible use it.

I could not find a flashing method described above that would be acceptable at Ralph R. Reeder Roofing & Sheet metal Co.

Lee Clark

English Roofer · 10-10-2009, 05:52 PM

AS a rule we go 6" up on step flashing and where ever the nearest brick course on the front apron and the same with the back gutter.
We always use lead mate(a grey flexable mastic) to fill the joints as if you use morter (cement) it will crack with lead as it expands and contracts with the heat.