Question About Roofing Membrane

Robie

A good customer of mine had some roof damage during some recent windy weather. He had a metal covered flat roof on a portion of the house and is having a membrane type installed to replace it. I was up there today to replace a chimney vent and he asked me to look at the roofing job and tell him what I thought. I'm no roofer but did see quite a few pretty large air bubbles under the membrane. Temps were around 48* today if that matters.
I have included a pic of just some of the bubbles. Just wondering if this is anything he should worry about.
Thanks.

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johnk

How old is this roof?This should be totally redone,looks like some school kids put this on.I woulnt trust this roof for a minute!!

Robie

The roof was started this morning and from the looks of things, they aren't done yet.
Are you kidding or serious?
Here are a few more pics...

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If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters. ~Alan Simpson

johnk

I am quite serious,this roof is going to have nothing but problems,I can see fishmouths(where the material is lifted and looks like a fishmouth)and I havent even seen any closeups.I just hope he hasnt got paid for this,Its a shame this guys calling himself a roofer.It should be re-done IMO

johnk

Do you know what was used for a base ?To me it just about looks like a chemical reaction.How was this applied?

Robie

I can't answer any of the questions. He's a very good customer and friend (retired) and is unable to get up on the roof. I just want to make sure he gets something that will serve him well.
He did mention the old roof was metal and lifted up in the wind. That's about all I know.
Thanks for the imput. Any other comments are welcome. I want to warn him before he pays the guy if it's not right.

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If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters. ~Alan Simpson

Alan Hughes

Don't like trashing another guy's work but here goes.

What I see appears to be 45mil epdm fully adhered to the roof deck. 45mil tends to bubble and wrinkle more than 60mil. The bubbles are not a biggie imo as they will usually permanently draw out with some sun. 60mil is just so much better to work with.

Other weak areas I can see from here;

Deck wasn't as clean as I'd like to see. Some of the bumps are bits of debris under the rubber. tacky.

Seams look to be glued and not taped. If so, bad bad.

Edges flashing taped to edge metal. Critical error. The weakest link. At least he's using primer. This roof is not wind resistant imo.

I do NOT like seeing caulking being done before the job is completed. What's he hiding? I've put many epdm roofs on with no caulk at all on the seams ... but we seam tape nearly everything.

also, looks like he skipped installing felt under the shingles. I see bare wood at the rubber/shingle transition... critical error.

What's with that pipe collar in the last pic?

I give it 3yrs or less before the wind is under it and it fails.

all this is just my opinion looking at the pics.

Renegade

Two questions off the bat.

What's underneath?

Is that first seam bucking water?

That looks like a dektite on a shingle roof....not good

Alan Hughes

for reference, here's a few pics of what an epdm roof should look like;


60mil fully adhered with solvent base glue


walls run with RTS and reinforced 60mil on walls


no rush job under these windows


a 'before' pic.

johnk

The caulking is more than likely hiding fishmouths IMO

Slyfox

I have no idea about your area, but in mine you can get a roof inspected for 200.00 - 400.00 bucks depending on drive time for the inspecter etc, and you could try your County Engineer Department because they will be even cheaper if they have someone available.

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tinner666

Look at #3. Umless I miss my quess, he's only glueing the cover over the dripedge. It's too thin and buckling where he has finished.
But take note! If the metal had been primed, it would all have been primed! Not just to the spot where the glue stops! And only the glue can in sight????

And that pipe collar???????????????????????? Won't find a 'roofer' doing something new below one that looks like that.

And those will be the first to go. Rest of it will follow.

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Frank Slate Roof Repairs, Richmond, Va.

tiny

Appers to be versico roofing material ,and looks like left overs from another project seems to me the applicator may want to rethink his roofing choice maybe stay with shingles there really should may be two seams on that roof.And i would tell them to strip in all seams with p/s and i run my mebraine higher under the shingles dont see i/w or cut off either.Just my thoughts not trying to ripp the guy but i would not let my guys install like that they would be down the road.

AaronB.

I ndont think I'd worry about wind uplift, unless the deck comes too. A crappy install for sure, but it may never leak.

On the rare occasion I do rubber, I still glue. It works just fine if you do it right. The "caulk" is seam sealer. This is meant to seal the edge until the vulcanization process can be completed by the curing of the glue.

The bubbles are probably a combination of laziness, i.e. not sweeping properly and getting in a hurry, i.e. not waiting for the adhesives to flash off properly, or not spreading it properly. This is why I like to spray my adhesives. Gets them nice and thin and even.

I have done roofs and had a guy seam sealing behind us if he had nothing else to do. I may be wrong, but it looks like they might be installing the perimeter flashing and following right behind with the primer. This would account for the primer being incomplete.

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AaronB.

WHY AREN'T THERE ANY TERMINATIONS ON THE WALLS AND WINDOWS?

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Alan Hughes

The building is large and not new and has stress fractures in other areas. I tested two spots and feared the worst, so no terminations. I did extra careful wall prep and glued reinforced to the walls with the black glue. It went extremely well, one of those where the material seemed to flow perfectly in place.

I think the moon phase (decreasing) had somethin to do with it.

The customer has been very good to me and most of their properties are very close so I do yearly inspections for free. If I see a problem developing, I'll address it then.

rc-construction

I used to be the largest Carlisle applicator in the US. The bubbles are from getting impatient in cool weather and not letting the adhesives flash off correctly as others have said. They are not a problem and will lay down in a few weeks and are permissable by most inspectors. As far as the rest of the job they did leave debris on the recovery board and didnt sweep or blow it off well. Gluing and caulking the seams are certainly permissable under almost all factory warranty systems its just that most contractors use primer and tape now for speed. Gluing that metal is still permissable too, but a good urethane caulk is usually required at the perimeter.

In the end it does look like the cobbled the job together a little and made a few mistakes but the thing may last 10 yrs.

Grumpy

Whatkidn of tie in is that with the shingles? What did they flash that chimney pipe with dope? That'll eat the epdm assuming they wrapped it that high under the shingles. If he's on the substrate/plywood I hope the plywood wasn't fastened with nails because they are going to wiggle through the epdm.



Hey Alan in your first pic why didn't you strip in the edge metal? I've seen where water will back up if one of those drains ever clogs and get behind the cladding causing rott, if it's wooden. Frozen water in the winter time will push off the cladding, seen that happen too. Of coarse that'd fall under the realm of improper maintence I supose but just asking.

johnk

Rcconstruction I cant beleive you would find this at all acceptable.I wouldnt give this guy a dime for such shotty workmanship.Totally unacceptable....yuck!!

MALCO.New.York

[quote=Alan Hughes;402082]for reference, here's a few pics of what an epdm roof should look like;




walls run with RTS and reinforced 60mil on walls

/quote]

Pretty Anal with the placement of base/iso screws???? But that IS a good thing!!!!!!

Job well done!

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