nolo

This seems like a big turn off for me. I am worried that water will get trapped behind the shingles. Is Owens corning the only company that does this? What companies use spotted strips? Should I be worried?

dougger222

I've never laid Owens Cornings so not sure, there mascot is the Pink Panther, right? If your looking at a shingle brand check out Certainteed and GAF, both have been around for well over 100 years.

As long as the shingles seal down properly you shouldn't have to worry about water getting under the shingles.

It's the cheap roofing contractors you see putting down Owens Corning shingles, imo.

nolo

I thought Owens Corning was high end. It costs as much as GAF. I'm starting to lean away from OC.

dougger222

I consider any manufacturer of a 20 year shingle pretty cheap.

Travis

I agree Oc sucks, but it is job security for us roofing contractors for cheap asses putting 20 yr roofs on,

dougger222

I think even most 30 year laminate roofs won't look pretty at 20 years. In 20 years time there will be hail, defect, and color changes.

The average roof is changed every 17 years is it?

MJW

Depends on what OC shingle you choose. Those 20 year 3 tabs will blow off before you get the ridge cap on. The laminate Owens Corning is a good shingle. I would take them over a Timberline right now. The ridge is probably the best I have seen. Take a look and try a few, you will be surprised.

I'll agree with the 17 years as of late in our area Dougger. We are in the high hail band. I think it may be less than that now. I have done very few where the shingles were 30 years old. My house was one of them.

Ed the Roofer

Out of the last 100 call-ins, where the Home Owner knew the age of their existing roof, the majority of them were having them replaced between the 12 and 15 year point.

I'm going to have my secretary run through the old calls and verify if that is accurate when she has nothing else to do. Maybe next December?

I know that is not scientific, but it does add credibility to the manufacturers claims about most roofs not being vented and installed correctly. Also, are the home owners reporting what the real estate agent told them before they bought the home?

Oh yeah, the roof is new! It was just put on 9 or 10 years ago! Yeah, right. New, my azz.

Ed

reveivl

"I know that is not scientific, but it does add credibility to the manufacturers claims about most roofs not being vented and installed correctly."

Or it means that their warranty is pure hype and they use the venting/installation issue to get out of, or minimise, claims.

__________________
"Too much is always better than not enough"--J.R. "Bob" Dobbs

Ed the Roofer

If you were the manufacturer of a product, and offered a 30 year warranty, wouldn't you have various exclusions?

Should it not be expected that they expect that their product to be installed per their "Minimum" specifications?

This is not intended to be a debate about whether or not you or anyone else agree that a proper balanced ventilation system extends the life of the shingle roof.

It is more of, does the manufacturer have the right to require their "Minimum" specifications be followed.

If I was hanging my neck on the line for 30 years plus, I certainly would have expectations that for the warranty to be enforceable, that my "Minimum" ventilation and other application standards be followed.

Anyone who disagrees with that, is just crying because they feel so abused by the big conglomerate roofing manufacturing corporations, and expect that they should be handing out free roofing shingles any time there is a "Perceived" defect.

Do the job RIGHT the first time, and it will last much longer than the average actual real world viability that they currently sustain.

For cripes sake, carpets inside a protected environment get replaced more frequently than a roof, and they are not subjected to the contstant changing seasons and instantaneous temperature fluctuations and direct UV degradation in addition to being installed by 90 % trained monkeys.

It is the exception, rather than the rule, that the installers and company ownership really take pride and care to follow the proper details, precisely and explicitly, to ensure that the materials last as long as they possibly should.

Ed

tinner666

Water wicks up under the tabs 1", on all shingles. That's why EG nails are a no-no.
AND, I've seen several roofs in which the water ran across the roof, under the tabs because of the solid seal. Not to worry though, when the water gets to a shingle joint, it finds a bit of relief by going under the shingles. Then, the felt keeps it from the wood for a few years. The roof usually lasts 6-7 years before the leaks show.

__________________
Frank Yes, I DO sell domains and hosting and Websites.
$7.49 Domains,Hosting,and Free Website Tonight with Domain
Albert's Roofing, Leak Repairs

nolo

Is the solid strip really that bad? I keep going back and forth with OC. I talked to the guy at ABC Supply and he said that most people use OC on high end jobs. They use Tamko on regular spec jobs where people don't request a certain shingle. He said that contractors prefer OC over Elk, GAF Timberline, and Certainteed Landmark. Visually, I like Elk architectural shingles. I don't want to throw up 50 year OC shingles only to have them leak in 6 years.

Ed the Roofer

The only Owens Corning shingle job I did in the past 10 years or so, was by Home Owner request because of a unique color she had desired.

It was a 50 year Oak Ridge, was ventilated 100 % eave intake and attic exhaust to the maximum capacity available.

One year later, I was there to re-caulk the sheet metal chimney flashings and do our one year maintenance check up, and I notice that all, and I mean ALL of the shingles were completely loaded with spider web cracking. It was only the beginning stages, but that was only one friggin year on a 50 year shingle.

They are not even available to my customers unless they special request them, ever.

Ed

MJW

I have to believe you Ed, because I haven't checked up on the few jobs we did with OC multi layer shingles. Have not had any complaints though, except the one that had 3 tabs. They blew off before we were done, but the homeowner knew there was no warranty on them from us because he HAD to have them.

Anyways, they may be better here, because they are made here. I have some relatives that work at the OC plant, but we still don't use them.
I have to admit though, that they seemed like a good solid shingle with the multi layer ones and the ridge are probably the best I have seen.

Ed the Roofer

The spider webbing just amazed me after such a short period of time of a well ventilated structure.

I am in the process of transferring my film archived photos and scanning them into digital format. I'll have the girl pull that one to the front of the pile, so that maybe I can post them.

Ed

reveivl

Ed, I'm just a bit of a cynic when it comes to warranties and the like. I figure if they CAN get out of it they will.

__________________
"Too much is always better than not enough"--J.R. "Bob" Dobbs

nolo

How long ago did you do this job? I'm not sure how long OC has carried the Oak Ridge line. If it was a while back, do you think OC has fixed the problem? I was just about to order OC. Man, I am confused. It seems like every roofer likes a different brand. Certainteed seems to have lines that have failed horribly and have class actions suits against them. What is up with their Landmark line? Do they have problems? I have read bad things about timberlines as well. I don't mind spending good money on materials, but I need a good product. What about ELK? The supply guy said they didn't sell much ELK. Do roofers just go with what is the cheapest shingle? I guess it could be considered repeat business. ABC said Tamko is the best selling shingle.

Ed the Roofer

Tamko Heritage 30's no problems
Tamko Heritage 50's, minor spider webbing

Certainteed Horizon, class Action, major

Gaf All Lines, class actions, over 15 year production period

Elk, just bought out by GAF 2-3 months ago

Owens Corning, considered "Builders Grade" well known name, biggest garbage dump of shingle materials, especially all of their light weight 3-tabs and my ONE and ONLY one experience with their 50 years.



Install any shingle wrong and without the PROPER AMOUNT of BALANCED VENTILATION, and they will all have failures.

I'll post a website link for you regarding the class action claims later tonight. I've gotta run right now,

Ed

Ed the Roofer

Here is an inspectors website with all sorts of information regarding class action lawsuits.

http://www.inspect-ny.com/roof/RoofWarranties.htm


Roofing Warranties - Valuable or Worthless?

Background: Asphalt roof shingles are the most common covering used on residential properties in North America. Early shingles were made by saturating rag-felts with asphalt and by coating each side of the saturated felt with an asphalt-mineral filler-coat, covering the top surface of the shingle with mineral granules (sunlight and weather resistance) and coating the bottom surface with a material to prevent shingles from sticking together in storage or shipment. Beginning in the 1940's the felt mat was changed to a zero rag-content using wood fibers and cellulose (newspaper). More recently many manufacturers began producing shingles using a fiberglass mat to replace the felt. The fiberglass mat was thought to have good tear resistance, possibly slightly better fire resistance, and as the mat was generally thinner than the felt mat, we believe that there were also economic advantages for both the manufacturer (less asphalt used in the mat) and the roofing installer (lighter material, easier to install).
In certain instances specific roofing products have shown common early failure, failing in a characteristic pattern which is easily identified (such as the thermal splitting defect. Some manufacturers offer limited warranty coverage of their product. Many roofers also guarantee their work to be free from leaks, but usually for a time period substantially shorter than the manufacturer's rated life of the roof material.
In cases which we've handled in the 1990's to about 2004 and involving thermal splitting or tearing of fiberglass-based asphalt shingles, some manufacturers (such as GAF) offer a limited product warranty. Following a fairly involved claims procedure requiring documentation, photographs, and a sample of damaged material the manufacturer may elect to warrant the roofing material on a pro-rated basis depending on the age of the roof and its warranted life. Sometimes the manufacturer's warranty covers only material cost, not installation cost (labor, demolition, removal of old materials) unless the roofing contractor chooses to extend such coverage.
The cost of roofing material is not the main ingredient in roofing cost. Labor and possibly disposal of old roofing material are significant costs. Out of concern for future roof life, some roofers are reluctant to install new roofing atop failed material even where additional layers of roofing are permitted by local codes.
Some homeowners are reluctant to install as new roofing the same product which failed early in the first place. Manufacturers might have changed the formulation of the product to improve durability, but they are understandably reluctant to say so, out of concern for increasing product liability. Without assurance from the manufacturer that a product which failed early has been modified to correct the problem, we advise our clients to consider using alternative products with design and performance expectations having a better track record.
Use links at the left of each page to navigate this document or to view other topics at this website. Green links at page left show where you are in our document or website. If you just "scroll down" you'll miss some important articles. See links at page left.

Roofing Manufacturer Contact Information

• Atlas Roofing, for Atlas Shingle roofing shingle warranty claims, 802 Highway 19 N, Ste. 190, Meridian MS 39307 601-484-8900
• Bird Inc., for Bird Shingle roofing shingle warranty claims (obs. address: 1077 Pleasant St., Norwood MA 02062 617-5551-0656) is - an affiliate of CertainTeed Corporation - so try contacting CertainTeed: P.O. Box 860, 750 East Swedesford Road, Valley Forge, PA 19482 USA Phone: (610) 341-7000 Fax: (610) 341-7113 E-mail: corporate@certainteed.com
• Brookline School District v. Bird, Inc.
• BPCO Roofing, 9510 St. Patrick, LaSalle, P! H*R 1R9 Canada 514-364-0161
• Celotex Corpration for Celotex Shingle roofing shingle warranty claims, 4010 Boy Scout Blvd., Tampa FL 33607-5750 813-873-1700
• CertainTeed Corporation for CertainTeed Shingle roofing shingle warranty claims, (some folks spell it Certain Teed or Certainteed Roofing), Technical Service Department, 1400 Union Meeting Road, PO Box 1100, Blue Bell, PA 19422 - 1-800-345-1145 or 610-341-6212 FAX.
  A CertainTeed Roofing Product warranty claim form in .pdf form can be found at http://www.certainteed.com/NR/rdonly...mform71504.pdf and a second .pdf document is a FAQ or question and answer sheet about how to make a shingle or roofing product warranty claim to the CertainTeed Corporation - see http://www.certainteed.com/NR/rdonly...ntyFAQs_2_.pdf .
  [Original address we had on file was: 750 E. Swedesford Rd., Box 860, Valley Forge PA 19482 610-341-7000]
• Elk Corporation for Elk Shingle roofing shingle warranty claims, 14643 Dallas Pkwy, Ste 1000, Dallas TX 75240-8871 214-851-0400
• GAF, for GAF roofing shingle warranty claims, 1361 Alps Rd., Wayne NJ 07470 201-628-3000 - Technical Services & Guarantee Status Office 1-800-ROOF-411
  GAF class action settlement - call 800-414-4370 for more information or see the GAF Class Action Lawsuit Settlement Website
• Globe Building Materials for Globe Shingle roofing shingle warranty claims, 2230 Indianapolis Blvd, Whiting IN 46394 219-473-4500
• IKO Chicago, Inc., for IKO Shingle roofing shingle warranty claims, 6600 South Central Ave., Bedford Pk, IL 60638 708-496-2800
• Malarkey Roofing, 3131 N. Columbia Blvd., Portland OR 97217 503-283-1191
• Owens-Corning Fiberglas, for Owens Corning Shingle roofing shingle warranty claims, Fiberglass Tower, Toledo OH 43659 419-248-8000
• PABCO Roofing for PABCO Shingle roofing shingle warranty claims, 1715 Thorne Rd., Tacoma WA 98241 206-272-0374
• TAMKO Roofing for TAMCO Shingle roofing shingle warranty claims, 220 W. Fourth St., Joplin MO 64802 417-624-6644
• Intec/Permaglas for Intec Shingle roofing shingle warranty claims (some spelled it Intek Shingles), POB 2845, Port Arthur TX 77643 404-724-7024
• NOTE: Some manufacturers may consolidate with others or may have ceased operation.

Ed

dougger222

I would agree most roofs look good until 12-15 years.

Was up on a 20 year old ELK 30 year laminate roof that was shot.

Only good shingle product may be metal! Too spendy though...