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No More Permits

 
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Old 03-07-2018, 11:04 AM   #1
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No More Permits


North Jersey says no more permits for roofing and siding.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.nor...ing/390029002/


Now the illegal crowd won't even have to show proof of insurance or license.
Technically to the homeowner but we know they never ask
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Old 03-07-2018, 11:24 AM   #2
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Re: No More Permits


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North Jersey says no more permits for roofing and siding.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.nor...ing/390029002/


Now the illegal crowd won't even have to show proof of insurance or license.
Technically to the homeowner but we know they never ask
Any links to state site details? That will be a big blow to many town bldg depts, I like it though

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Old 03-07-2018, 11:34 AM   #3
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Re: No More Permits


Ordinary maintenance makes sense but the only time you ever need to prove you carry the insurance/license is when you get a permit.
Considering this the biggest area in construction where illegals hang out....... I sense troubles
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Old 03-07-2018, 11:39 AM   #4
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Re: No More Permits


http://www.nj.gov/dca/divisions/code...W_03052018.pdf
as usual the wording does not make sense


Good Ole Gov Murphy helping out the illegals, remember he has their back
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Old 03-07-2018, 11:41 AM   #5
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Re: No More Permits


Minor work permits are still needed for most of the listed stuff, it just lets the work begin right away
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Old 03-07-2018, 12:07 PM   #6
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Re: No More Permits


Siding has always been considered minor work and allowed you to start in advance.

I hope the hacks don't start putting 3 layers on everything again
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Old 03-07-2018, 12:31 PM   #7
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Re: No More Permits


Welcome to NJ, like any politician gives a s^*t to make the homeowners happy so they can save them a few bucks to get extra votes the next term.

I can't wait to see when you start getting roof failures and property damages because some hacks put a 3d layer of roof over 2 existing layers and after some wet snow the roof collapsed, etc. Or when homeowners start flooding DCA with complaints because they got ripped off, etc.

At least now even they do a drive-by inspection, at least when the permit is filed you have to indicate how many existing roof layers there is now, at least they know the job is performed by the insured and licensed contractor, etc.

The rest of the crap, I love it...
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Old 03-07-2018, 12:53 PM   #8
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Re: No More Permits


I love it! Less gov't regulation and more personal responsibility. I would be behind permits if the inspectors and cities weren't held blameless. No logic purpose if the inspectors aren't held responsible for their inspections in some manner.

Also, how many times do they actually get up there and look at everything especially if it's a known contractor. If it's anything like here, they show up, make a show of it and hand over the presigned PASS.
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Old 03-07-2018, 01:11 PM   #9
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Re: No More Permits


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Welcome to NJ, like any politician gives a s^*t to make the homeowners happy so they can save them a few bucks to get extra votes the next term.

I can't wait to see when you start getting roof failures and property damages because some hacks put a 3d layer of roof over 2 existing layers and after some wet snow the roof collapsed, etc. Or when homeowners start flooding DCA with complaints because they got ripped off, etc.

At least now even they do a drive-by inspection, at least when the permit is filed you have to indicate how many existing roof layers there is now, at least they know the job is performed by the insured and licensed contractor, etc.

The rest of the crap, I love it...
At least now with the permit the contractor write down what he's supposed to do. And there's a record as to who it is.
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Old 03-07-2018, 01:43 PM   #10
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Re: No More Permits


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I love it! Less gov't regulation and more personal responsibility. I would be behind permits if the inspectors and cities weren't held blameless. No logic purpose if the inspectors aren't held responsible for their inspections in some manner.

Also, how many times do they actually get up there and look at everything especially if it's a known contractor. If it's anything like here, they show up, make a show of it and hand over the presigned PASS.


Some people suck at their jobs. It's true in every industry, in every trade. Those of us who try to do it right get lumped in with the rest. It's unfortunate.
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Old 03-07-2018, 01:48 PM   #11
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Re: No More Permits


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I love it! Less gov't regulation and more personal responsibility. I would be behind permits if the inspectors and cities weren't held blameless. No logic purpose if the inspectors aren't held responsible for their inspections in some manner.

Also, how many times do they actually get up there and look at everything especially if it's a known contractor. If it's anything like here, they show up, make a show of it and hand over the presigned PASS.
There was an inspector where I do work who would go up on the roof and demand the roofer tear off a 4x4 section of roof so he could count the nails. Roofers really complained until they figured out a way to stop him, they would not let him use their ladders due to insurance issues. The demanded the town supply them with a certificate of insurance for him to use the ladders. The Building officials flipped out, the town ins did not cover employees using ladders period. The roofers won.
Now they hand out roofing inspection stickers like candy and long as they get their fee.
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Old 03-07-2018, 02:21 PM   #12
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Re: No More Permits


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Some people suck at their jobs. It's true in every industry, in every trade. Those of us who try to do it right get lumped in with the rest. It's unfortunate.
I get it you have a job to do, however the issue I have with inspectors isn't that they know me and get out of my way asap, but it's the fact that you guys are held blameless. So what's the point. If there is no checks and balances on your end what is the guarantee that your inspection is accurate and safe? It's nothing more than a seat belt law. It lowers insurance premiums and makes people feel safer.
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Old 03-07-2018, 02:47 PM   #13
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Re: No More Permits


There might end up being some unintended consequences to this... higher insurance rates? Made up revenue through additional fees that affect other trades?

Rarely does government willingly give up money without a way to get more...
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Old 03-07-2018, 02:50 PM   #14
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Re: No More Permits


Im not looking at the inspectors at all in this. Sure they drive by.

Some regulation is good. I believe the cry for stricter OSHA fall protection came from illegals falling off roofs in Cali......when there were small teams of guys installing everyone was careful.....when it turned into a dozen guys running around at high speeds to make money...accidents increased.

Our License requires a liability insurance policy and a disclaimer on past criminal record. Without at least that much you cant get a permit.

Now without that it will be anything goes. I was in the industry 17yrs before ever seeing a code book and then I took night classes for building codes. So my code knowledge came from random people in the business and failing for something.

Point is the code recognizes ice protection at eaves and number of layers. At least those two are noted on a normal permit. Codes exist for insurance protection. There will be more reckless hacks cutting corners. I can see insurance companies denying help in the event of a problem. Again with the permit the owner has some recourse.

I see it as a problem and certainly dont like the idea of people relying on Home Advisor for advice and background checks

Last edited by Tom M; 03-07-2018 at 02:53 PM.
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Old 03-07-2018, 03:01 PM   #15
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Re: No More Permits


Can't wait for the first roof to collapse from too much weight. Who'll get the blame? Who will pay for the mess?
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Old 03-07-2018, 03:06 PM   #16
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There might end up being some unintended consequences to this... higher insurance rates? Made up revenue through additional fees that affect other trades?

Rarely does government willingly give up money without a way to get more...
I doubt it. Since municipalities hold themselves blameless I can't see it factoring much into the formula. I have a buddy who recruits Actuaries. I will see if he can get a scoop on the impact in their formulas.

Also the article said that not much revenue is generated through these permits. I would imagine that most of it is eaten up in labor expense of the inspectors and office staff to process the permits.
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Old 03-07-2018, 03:07 PM   #17
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Can't wait for the first roof to collapse from too much weight. Who'll get the blame? Who will pay for the mess?
Why would it be any different than when permits were required?

Who will get the blame? The contractor, just like when there is a permit. The inspector and municipality is held blameless.

Who will pay? The contractors insurance or the home owners insurance, just as it was with the permits.
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Old 03-07-2018, 03:08 PM   #18
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Im not looking at the inspectors at all in this. Sure they drive by.

Some regulation is good. I believe the cry for stricter OSHA fall protection came from illegals falling off roofs in Cali......when there were small teams of guys installing everyone was careful.....when it turned into a dozen guys running around at high speeds to make money...accidents increased.

Our License requires a liability insurance policy and a disclaimer on past criminal record. Without at least that much you cant get a permit.

Now without that it will be anything goes. I was in the industry 17yrs before ever seeing a code book and then I took night classes for building codes. So my code knowledge came from random people in the business and failing for something.

Point is the code recognizes ice protection at eaves and number of layers. At least those two are noted on a normal permit. Codes exist for insurance protection. There will be more reckless hacks cutting corners. I can see insurance companies denying help in the event of a problem. Again with the permit the owner has some recourse.

I see it as a problem and certainly dont like the idea of people relying on Home Advisor for advice and background checks
How does a permit allow for recourse?
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Old 03-07-2018, 03:19 PM   #19
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Re: No More Permits


I would find it hard to believe the stream of revenue generated from a ordinary maintenance work would not be missed. Office staff are on salary and they write the permit in 5 minutes while your their. No prior approvals.

Since inspectors cant be babysitting the entire install its impossible to throw blame on them. Their main goal is and should be life safety.
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Old 03-07-2018, 03:38 PM   #20
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Why would it be any different than when permits were required?

Who will get the blame? The contractor, just like when there is a permit. The inspector and municipality is held blameless.

Who will pay? The contractors insurance or the home owners insurance, just as it was with the permits.
So they are going to blame the illegal with no insurance or registration/license?

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