A New Roof For 20% Of The Cost!

buildpinnacle

There has been a many discussions of the 'deductible covering' issue on CT. As we all have our opinions and those who have read my posts know mine, I have decided that instead of griping about it, maybe we should help those that do cover that objection. That is, however, why we all meet here.

I recently came across this exact scenerior on an insurance claim job that the HO was giving me fits about the deductible. When I found the damage on a routine inspection and informed them they would be getting the entire roof replaced due to the hail damage, they were ecstatic. I explained the procedure and informed them they would be getting the entire roof replaced for the cost of their deductible. Once all the paperwork was done and the $2,000 deductible amount became a reality they started to hotbox me. I stopped them in their tracks and told them they were being unreasonable. I informed them that when I came out originally on a routine leak call if I had told them that they could get the entire roof replaced for 20% of the cost because we had left over first rate materials and my men worked one week per year absolutely free, they would've jumped on it. For the sales 'students of the game' you can call this closing technique 'shaming'. I tend to just call it reality. The end result was a closed deal, legal, and out the door. I billed for all the recoverables with a copy of the actual contract (not some made up number $2,000 higher) and good business prevailed.

Don't let other roofers shady moral business practices keep you from being a better salesman.

__________________

outlaw

Have you ever heard of a deductible being 2% of the homes value?

That is what many insurance companies are doing here. That means your average 300k house has a 6k deductible. Try covering that.

__________________
www.clarkroofingandsiding.com

buildpinnacle

They started doing that in Texas a few years back in an attempt to make the HO's self insured for wind and hail damage...or close to it. The majority of the deductibles around here are 1% now with a few 2% and some lingering $500/$1000 deductibles. I recently had a claim where a windstorm had blown an 8" diameter tree onto the back slope of a $1.2 million home. The roof had 40sq of shingles just on the back 10/12 alone. I figured the claim for the replacement of the decking sheets that were punctured from the branches, replacing two rafters, damaged gutter, interior patch/paint, and replacing the entire rear slope including the hip extentions and dormers because the existing shingles where 4 yr old Elks and a patch would not match since GAF/Elk's merger and changing of the granulation patterns. (It wouldn't have matched from UV discoloration anyway even with the exact same shingle) The HO had a 1% deductible totaling $12,000.00. They paid every penny of it and we handled the claim from front to back.

My question has always been this. Most roofers don't like insurance work anyway as they feel they don't pay enough to begin with. If that is the case, and sometimes it is, how could a company do the work for the insurance settlement amount less the deductible amount and cover proper margins in the first place? I guess this question needs to be bumped to the 'lowballers' thread.

__________________

buildpinnacle

BTW Outlaw, I checked out your site.

__________________

dougger222

With the average insurance company in Texas paying 40% less than what they pay in MN I don't know how any roofing contractors could cover deductibles and stay in business.

There are storm chasers here getting the big bucks who go door to door saying they'll cover deductibles up to $1,000 with a sign in the yard, free upgrade, and give money back to the home owner.

It's tough at times explaining to home owners that putting a sign in the yard to cover a deductible is bordering insurance fraud.

Won't even go into what adjusters have told me about covering deductibles.

LA_nailer

2%.. that's excellent in my area.

Pinnacle, i see your in east texas, im in SW louisiana, Lake Charles area. anyway after hurricane Rita, insurance companies changed all their policies (thanks to our legislators allowing this) .most deductibles are between 3 and 5 % ... i do not know a single person including myself, who still has a 1,000 deductible.

Did a roof in december that the insurance co. (good hands people) paid $800. The h/o 's deductible was a little over $6500.

dougger222

The deductibles for both of my houses are $1,000. A few years ago while insured with a second rate insurance company got a letter that my deductible for wind and hail claims had gone from $500 to $1,000 due to so many claims.

There have been many hail/wind storms from 06-08 and to the amazement of my agent and myself my premiums have gone down slightly with the deductible staying the same. My agent says the insurance company started rating on credit scores.

Done many roofs for home owners with $500 deductibles and a few with $250 deductibles.

Looked at a million dollar house recently and the home owner said his deductible is $100. What is strange is every other home owner with the same insurance company has had a 1% deductible (military insurance company). Typicaly they call out a contractor to look for damage and write the claim then push that contractor on the home owner. Last claim they sent out an actual adjuster the roof before that didn't bother with insurance. The five before those I lost.

A good friend of mine had his roof replaced with his $250 deductible 8 years ago. In 2006 he got hit by lightening twice and filed a claim both times as it wrecked his electronics, $250 deductible both times. That year he got slammed with very large hail and got a check for $17K to replace his house and pole building roofs, again $250 deductible. He's been insured with the same insurance company for 40 years and didn't get dropped although he could have.

buildpinnacle

Douger222,

We've heard of the MN money in roofing for quite some time now. I am not certain what drives the difference in price. I know of alot of the stormers from big D that have been up there for years. I think we are all paying pretty close to the same price for materials. I know the labor down here is much less from what I have read on other posts. Maybe they factor in short work year. What are your thoughts.

__________________

MJW

Cheap illegal labor.

It is starting to hit us up here now. Insurance companies know who can do the jobs for certain prices. Had an adjuster tell us once...."I'm tired of you guys ripping us off, I know plenty of crews who will do it for this price"

This was on a job that I estimated with Xactimate. The insurance estimate was thousands cheaper. We didn't make out that well on that job and many others last year. I'm hoping something will change. Maybe the threat of freshly returning people from Mexico to work for the summer and possibly carrying the swine flu, will put a bug in some people's ear.

dougger222

Joe, LOL! I'm going to start advertising my crew is 100% swine flu free!!! Will also have to tell them that I'm the only one on my crew who's personally crossed the border but that was 10 years ago!

At any rate it would be safe to say you see more out of state Texas plates in MN installing roofs than any other state. Of course I35 makes it a straight shot. There are also a lot of adjusters from Texas after major hail storms here.

I know Minnesota and Wisconsin are two of the thoughest and most expensive states to run a business. General liability, property tax, sales tax, state tax and income tax are all high here. This year I will pay $8,250 in property tax for the two houses. One is worth $200K the other $600K. I've done roofs for many home owners who pay $10-15K a year for property tax.

What I know is that roofing contractors who hire subs from the deep south are paying around $55 per square here in MN. Yes, materials cost the same but we need ice and water shield here a minumal of two rows on all houses and attached garages. All heated out buildings need it too. Prior to July 1'st 07 all buildings in MN needed ice and water shield.

MJW

Sorry to stray off topic on your post pinnacle, but Doug $600K for a house!?? I mean, I'm proud of you, a little jealous too, but have you lost it? I just bought another new pickup and thinking about a new skidloader....that makes me nervous. haha
Nope, not me, I wouldn't spend that kind of money on anything.

buildpinnacle

There are tons of IA's from down here. Also, tons of the stormers thoughout the country generate from Texas as well. After reading a lot of posts from people up north and east, I have noticed that due to the extreme weather, ice damming, etc your roofing codes are much more strict, which plays alot into the difference in price. We generally get much more money on the coast when we are doing Seaward I work as each roof has to be inspected by a certified Texas Windstorm engineer. You have to hurricane nail the shingles, mastic the gables, etc. I've seen inspectors make roofers tear off complete new roofs due to nails placed errantly and out of the designated nail lines. I probably shouldn't say this, but I always laughed as we drove by. They were probably low bid.

__________________

dougger222

Joe, I didn't pay $600K for the house I bought this Jan but rather bought a forclosed house. We lived in the Maplewood house for four years and finally after getting valdalized (theft) for the fifth time in that time frame decided it was time to move. Rather than sell that house and lose tens of thousands of dollars decided to rent that one out to cover the mortgage note and buy. Amazingly enough we found great renters who pay there rent early from Craigslist. Small house, one couple, two dogs with an acre fenced in, $1,300.

The house we bought has a little bad history according to the neighbor who also built in 2003/2004. The original owner hired a builder from Wayzata and decided to not pay him. In 10/06 the owner stole someones identity rather than refinance and found an appraiser and bank to write a loan for $830K. Last August the Sheriff put an eviction notice on the door so the bank picked the house back up after they gave them $2K to peacefuly move out!

We ended up having to put down equivelant to buying a new viper for a down payment but $17K of that was to finish the three bathrooms above grade of which one only needed $680.

The neighbor said the previous guy never made one mortgage payment in the 4 years he lived in the house. He also said he was hauled off to jail many times for warrants.

I feel bad about the builder rather than the bank as the bank should have done some research. The bank lost over $400K on the deal, who knows how much the builder lost. I know he put a lot of high end stuff into the house and after he left the "owner" put some cheap stuff in.

The house is nice though, 3,400sq ft finished with three bedrooms and three bathrooms. 1,700sq ft unfished basement with rough ins for a bathroom, insulated and pollied. The basement and upper level has 9ft ceilings and the main level has 10ft ceilings. 850sq ft main level garage with 12ft ceilings and underneath garage of the same size with 8ft ceilings. In floor heat in both garages, basement, and master bath. Hardi board siding which was put on bad as when it's windy you can here it hitting the house. The roofers strangly enough did a superb job on the roof only problem they put down Timberlines so had to replace 5 shingles right away due to wind damage. The roofers did do a bad job though on the balcony off the master as it leaked for a while. Ended up putting down another sheat of plywood, ice/water, base sheet and smooth torch down. On top of that put down slate. 45sq 8/12 with two very steep terrets, very tough roof to do three sides are over 30ft tall. The house sits on a 3.7 acre tree farm. There are houses in the area that dwarf this house. Across the street there's a development with houses in the $800K-1Mil+ range. 3 acre lots starting at $150K, ouch!!!

Yes, it's a lot more house than my wife and I need but we got a killer deal on it. Ended up getting it for $392K with closing costs and $17K in repairs which I will be getting back $14K which of course went back into the house. Current tax value $680K. We are both debt free besides the two houses and have no vehicle loans. My wife manages a steak house and works behind the bar Thur-Sat. Her money either goes into the savings account or for decorating the house. Living in the country again is nice. Farm land on one side and a pond on the other, tons of wild life. May have to start hunting!!!

But if this house was in Texas I bet it would be worth $225K tops!!!


Don't be jealous Joe, you put a big addition on your last last year right? New work truck, new skid loader, now that's what I want!!! Heck I was happy with a small house for 4 years.


Back on subject.
Some insurance companies in MN pay bad as do some regions of MN. I've talked to adjusters from Mankato who tell me they pay $100 a square or more less there than in the Twin Cities. Have had a couple adjusters in the South/West Metro try to pay on the Mankato price list. Rochester and Duluth both big towns pay almost as much as the TC. About 6-7 years ago I bid an easy 50sq building in Mankato with Landmarks for $150 a square and lost it!

The good news is about 80% of insurance claims in MN are paid off Xactimate. Of those most pay according to the full roof scope of work.

The other day met with an adjuster for a claim on an airport South of the cities. He didn't deny the house roof but said he needed to come back out with either another contractor or another adjuster to access it safely (10/12 12/12 organic roof). He didn't deny the clear red wood siding with dings but said the same thing about the roof. Then we went into his air plane hanger and found quite a few dings on the metal roof. At that point he said he'd have to talk to his boss and get back to us as this was going to be a $30-40K+ claim. That was last week and the home owner and I are still in the dark. It's one of the big three too. In the past year have done 5 roofs in the air park for hail damage. The adjuster was told that then pointed across the street and said, "That ones not done". The home owner goes, "That's my cousins house and it's on Doug's list got approved two weeks ago". That ones getting roof, siding, gutters, and windows.