Lower costs, Higher Profits but lower compensation? - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

cms_roofing · 10-01-2009, 09:34 PM

Something has been bugging me in which I would like to share.

I currently have 3 offices in KY,TN, and KS. We also work in Colorado.
I offered other contractors myself, my 35 laborers, tools and salespersons to come and work for him as they were looking for roofers. My price was pretty reasonable all I was called is an F*ing prick middle man blah blah.

So anyways this is in Wyoming where insurance is paying an amount that honestly is crazy high but he still wants to pay $40 sq remind you that I wasnt just going to roof, I basically just run his business like i do mine.
Ok so how many of you on here pay $40 a square? Next is how many of you pay your roofers $40/sq and get paid $350-400 a sq. for the job?

My thing is these contractors are by no means paying right. When working with ice code, 30 yr shingles only codes, etc like in the mountains or even in hurricane zones where they pay the $250 base plus must have metal rakes, ice/water 30#, etc where a sq. on a 4/12 pitch with valley is paying $350 bottom ......would you still only pay your workers $40/sq. thats kind of greedy.

For them to call me a middle man...hmm well lets see since he was looking for roofers then that makes him a middle man between the actual roofing laborers and the homeowner right?

I have a lot of work right now but just kind of wanted to add another 25 men to the colorado area, with all my tools, licenses, also selling I would say that is very well worth $70/sq and the contractor does nothing except tell me the job and he has no worries. At $380/sq wow thats crazy greedy and yes I do know the prices of materials, btw they are higher in ky and tn right now for anything.

not_right · 10-01-2009, 09:55 PM

can we try this over but in english next time?

cms_roofing · 10-01-2009, 10:11 PM

Lol I knew that was going to happen, I was getting confused myself. Very sorry.

Plain and simple, contractors in areas are making way more then some of us but at same time I have seen the same one complaining on roof installers cost per square. I am a company owner just looking at the installers side of view since I just turned down handling all of the installations for another contractor.

He is making almost double what contractors make in non-mountain zones, hurricane zones, etc but still paying installers the same as all of us? Thats just absurd to me

nlgutters · 10-02-2009, 05:56 AM

Sounds more like jealousy to me!

Grumpy · 10-02-2009, 07:13 AM

Sub contractors aren't supposed to pay their insurance. I mean for what most of them are making per square, there is no way they can pay their insurance. $40 is way low. If you can't do it, don't do it.

I kinda agree with him about the middle man, I prefer to hire subs who only have one crew and work with their guys. You get a much much better job that way. IMO.

cms_roofing · 10-02-2009, 11:03 AM

Coming to the point of the economic times. I just am saying $40 is pathetic IMO, Im not jealous at all but these guys are all over the place and quality I know goes with that. I have talked to 30 contractors!, none of them are paying more than $50/sq. I just think its crazy and wanted to see other opinions. As I said before I have my own guys, I pay them right but this is something that affects us and helping my guys out is something I always do.

Thanks
PS I noticed the price per sq. is dramatically different in TN, KY than the rest of the states going by Xactimate and by conversations with you all and others. Believe me I know the prices too, its not because products are cheaper here

not_right · 10-02-2009, 12:29 PM

I am confused... you are upset about the low pay you receive b/c the GC is charging a top dollar and you should receive more?

If the GC can sell at $300-400 per sq, why dont you do the same thing?

cms_roofing · 10-02-2009, 02:33 PM

Well I have began to, actually these aren't really GC's they are just roofing biz owners looking for roofers. I was just astounded at all the roofing companies wanting roofers but dont pay worth a damn. I mean my guys make more here in KY, TN, and KS through me than the ones do in CO or OK, and some KS where insurance is paying way more for the jobs. I mean seriously do you all just run a slave drive in these other states/cities where u are payed on average $350 a square? Im here to say if you are only paying $40-60 sq, then you are and guarantee your quality would go up if you paid right. As said before with the economy mr. low bid is still making plenty but paying nothing, these are the things I am facing now.

cms_roofing · 10-02-2009, 02:37 PM

You could call me a storm chaser but I am one that if I go to a storm I set up there for life or until I retire. Thats how I went to KS, went for a storm opened up office but now its just a year round deal. Besides I will gladly be a storm chaser and labeled that seeing as I pay my guys more and give them a career, looks like the local GC's in these areas just are mad at storm chasers cuz of jealousy, loss of business, can't pay more than storm chasers and can't compete.

Just really odd in my view

apehangeralfy · 10-02-2009, 02:52 PM

Are you a licensed roofing contractor or not?

If you are than you set the price, if you sub from roofing contractors than you are an employee...

I get the question down here all the time that a guy has crews and is looking to do some houses, is comp exempt, has his own truck and tools.... the bottom line is that is illegal, at least in FL, and should be everywhere as far as I am concerned.

I know of a local Co. that uses subs., not paying taxes or WC on them and then lowballs cause it's the only way he can sell a job, them complains about not making any money....

J F · 10-02-2009, 02:55 PM

From what I read the op is licensed and insured

cms_roofing · 10-02-2009, 02:56 PM

Of course I am licensed! LOL I agree with that totally, I have all certification including HAAG, insured/bonded for performance and pay. No you are wrong there, I am in the insurance business I don't set the price, insurance company set the prices and we have to come to an agreement or I just don't get the work. No one here really understands I guess, I run a NATIONAL business not just one or two states or 3 or 4 cities, get out and look around then you will have a grasp of what I mean. Of course I am making money but at same time I have the best guys IMO and wish I could get them more work with other contractors that pay respectfully, it just doesn't happen. Anyways sorry for ranting on. Love the site and all of the talks!

apehangeralfy · 10-02-2009, 03:24 PM

I get where your coming from now. I took what I read wrong, my apologies.

I can tell you for certain that those rates are much better there than what is being paid here...

I don't pay by the square at this point but can tell you that if I did it would not be much more than $50 per square, I wish there was more left over to pay more but the competition around here along with all the guys that did mostly new construction has the pricing beat down pretty low... I see roofs going for under 2 bills a square... 'course those are the ones not paying there dues.

Wish I could help!!!!

Grumpy · 10-02-2009, 04:52 PM

I have subs calling me every day looking for work, I bet these guys do too. Therefore if someone calls looking for work I'm assuming they are giving low ball prices and if you are willing to work for it great. If not, no loss.

AaronB. · 10-02-2009, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cms_roofing

Well I have began to, actually these aren't really GC's they are just roofing biz owners looking for roofers. I was just astounded at all the roofing companies wanting roofers but dont pay worth a damn. I mean my guys make more here in KY, TN, and KS through me than the ones do in CO or OK, and some KS where insurance is paying way more for the jobs. I mean seriously do you all just run a slave drive in these other states/cities where u are payed on average $350 a square? Im here to say if you are only paying $40-60 sq, then you are and guarantee your quality would go up if you paid right. As said before with the economy mr. low bid is still making plenty but paying nothing, these are the things I am facing now.

Firstly, high pay has absolutely NOTHING to do with getting a quality job. Obversely, qualtiy minded craftsmen DO require higher pay than your average shingler.

I woul shingle for someone for $40 a square for a walk on as long as I was an employee of the company. Would not touch it under 90 as a subcontractor.