Legal question regarding a hurricane chaser - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

JCpresto · 10-02-2009, 05:49 PM

4 or so years ago a roofer from Texas was banging out botched up roofs in SE florida after hurricane Wilma. One being a customer of mine's house. 3 years from the date his drywall was destroyed on his exterior walls, and 1/3 of the plywood underneath the shingle was rotted. It appeared that the nails were shot deep, and alot of the plywood wasnt even nailed down.

Once we tracked the roofer down, he agreed to reimburse $250. Basically saying we have nothing on him because his so called "warranty" was good for 3 years. And that the permit was legitamate.

Its obvious that the roof was poorly done. The leaks started well before 3 years. So I guess what Im asking is what legal angle could I take to get the money back?

Slyfox · 10-02-2009, 06:03 PM

Contact the local city office for advice and ask about complaints on that roofer, do the same with the State Attorney's Office and the BBB.
Scour the area looking for additional home owners with the same problem with the roofer in question, maybe even an add in the local paper but do not disclose the roofers name, just explain the jest of your situation and see if anyone replies.
Gather all the information on the roofer that you can find, both business and personal wise.

Than contact an attorney and they will let you know if there's a chance at getting your monies back or not.

not_right · 10-02-2009, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCpresto

4 or so years ago a roofer from Texas was banging out botched up roofs in SE florida after hurricane Wilma. One being a customer of mine's house. 3 years from the date his drywall was destroyed on his exterior walls, and 1/3 of the plywood underneath the shingle was rotted. It appeared that the nails were shot deep, and alot of the plywood wasnt even nailed down.

Once we tracked the roofer down, he agreed to reimburse $250. Basically saying we have nothing on him because his so called "warranty" was good for 3 years. And that the permit was legitamate.

Its obvious that the roof was poorly done. The leaks started well before 3 years. So I guess what Im asking is what legal angle could I take to get the money back?

Did the customer verify that the permit was pulled, inspections were done and it passed?

Certain counties/cities are pretty strict in FLA with up to 3 or 4 inspecitons while others do a drive by final. What county/city if you dont mind me asking?

bwalley · 10-02-2009, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCpresto

4 or so years ago a roofer from Texas was banging out botched up roofs in SE florida after hurricane Wilma. One being a customer of mine's house. 3 years from the date his drywall was destroyed on his exterior walls, and 1/3 of the plywood underneath the shingle was rotted. It appeared that the nails were shot deep, and alot of the plywood wasnt even nailed down.

Once we tracked the roofer down, he agreed to reimburse $250. Basically saying we have nothing on him because his so called "warranty" was good for 3 years. And that the permit was legitamate.

Its obvious that the roof was poorly done. The leaks started well before 3 years. So I guess what Im asking is what legal angle could I take to get the money back?

This is the kind of crap that happens when out of state contractors are allowed to come into Florida.

jhlwstdnt · 10-02-2009, 10:08 PM

Have the homeowner file a lawsuit against him for negligence and breach of warranty. You have no standing to sue him yourself.

JCpresto · 10-03-2009, 08:17 AM

He's a loyal customer of mine, so Im doing everything I can to help him. I have a friend that has access to alot of info, we're trying to gather some feedback now.

We're in Broward county. The arm-pit. Dade would be considered the ass-crack.

not_right · 10-03-2009, 11:21 PM

i think broward has some pretty tough codes/inspections.. no?

i would think if the permit is closed out as passed and the contract spelled out a warranty and now is expired... he is going to be sol. doe he even have the contract?

bwalley · 10-03-2009, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCpresto

He's a loyal customer of mine, so Im doing everything I can to help him. I have a friend that has access to alot of info, we're trying to gather some feedback now.

We're in Broward county. The arm-pit. Dade would be considered the ass-crack.

Since the roofer is from Texas, I don't think there is anything that can be done about it now, especially 4 years later.

cms_roofing · 10-04-2009, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwalley

This is the kind of crap that happens when out of state contractors are allowed to come into Florida.

Now thats not neccessarily true. I hate these storm chasers that don't give an actual price and make u sign a 3 page contract blah blah blah. I do but it gives myself whom goes to storms occasionally(but I actually stay there, i.e. after the storm in TN, I have been there ever since) its not all out of state roofers. The problem also is this...If it weren't for "storm chasers" local roofers could not handle all of the work. Look at CO for example, yeh I don't like it just because these guys know what they are doing and making millions of dollars but without them of course locals would be better off MAYBE because NO WAY would the 20 locals get NEAR all the work done in the first 2 years. You know a lot of locals including me until I smartened up hate chasers because they have 30 or 40 roofing salesmen and knock down 1/3 of all of the roofs if not more. I agree though their are shady ones. Let me say this I like it. Guess what, today I went to get a contract signing, and due to a stormer taking too long to get roof done (6 months!!) I signed 3 others up on the same street. Didn't even know there was work left to do. So i have an ad coming out next week about slow roofing and scams! haha my gain there from "shady stormers"

Just saying I know not all are good but seriously when 200,000 claims are coming in dont be greedy

cms_roofing · 10-04-2009, 12:12 AM

Hey sorry, with the contract and work. Sorry with it in contract and you only have 1 year in certain states to file a civil suit I would say you got Screwed. Im very sorry but definitely call a lawyer, google the contractor name (as they may be under investigation) which is what I have been doing for a lot of customers around areas I work.
GOOD LUCK!

bwalley · 10-04-2009, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cms_roofing

Now thats not neccessarily true. I hate these storm chasers that don't give an actual price and make u sign a 3 page contract blah blah blah. I do but it gives myself whom goes to storms occasionally(but I actually stay there, i.e. after the storm in TN, I have been there ever since) its not all out of state roofers. The problem also is this...If it weren't for "storm chasers" local roofers could not handle all of the work. Look at CO for example, yeh I don't like it just because these guys know what they are doing and making millions of dollars but without them of course locals would be better off MAYBE because NO WAY would the 20 locals get NEAR all the work done in the first 2 years. You know a lot of locals including me until I smartened up hate chasers because they have 30 or 40 roofing salesmen and knock down 1/3 of all of the roofs if not more. I agree though their are shady ones. Let me say this I like it. Guess what, today I went to get a contract signing, and due to a stormer taking too long to get roof done (6 months!!) I signed 3 others up on the same street. Didn't even know there was work left to do. So i have an ad coming out next week about slow roofing and scams! haha my gain there from "shady stormers"

Just saying I know not all are good but seriously when 200,000 claims are coming in dont be greedy

This has nothing to do with being greedy, it is about out of state contractors coming into the state doing a bunch of work and when they are done go back home and do not take care of any problems that come up.

If the government wants to allow out of state contractors work in the state, they need to have them post bonds for each job they do so the client can be assured any problems will be taken care of.

In Florida there is a 4 or 5 year window to file suit, and in certian cases it begins upon the time the defect was discovered.

cms_roofing · 10-04-2009, 02:14 PM

LOL I agree with the bonds for sure! A lot of local governments in various states require a 10% bond on all job totals! So i think that is a good idea since we are already bonded lol. Also though as stated before a lot of bond regulations restrict "smaller" guys from getting any work and I mean even great fairly large companies where the owner doesn't have credit or that kind of money to post perf., bid, and other bonds. Its kinda hard to regulate everything if you really look at it with an open mind

oldfrt · 10-04-2009, 04:00 PM

There have been incindences where the BI has been held accountable for passing inspections that were never actually done or done haphazzardly.
Probably not a good route to go,since you'd have to work with him again.
But,if permits were pulled,inspections were done,the roofer got a go ahead from the city,they may hold the liability for not being on top of it.
Granted ,the roofer is the douch,but getting a pass from the city is just as much to blame,especially the way Florida restricts it's contractors.

You can't give some smuck from out of state the go ahead without having restrictions.Everyone in Florida has to pass the tests.
Kinda gives the legit contractors a kick in the face .

oldfrt · 10-04-2009, 04:03 PM

I know our state has funds from the licensing that go towards unfinished or botched jobs done by people they have given licenses to.
Does Florida have anything similar?

bwalley · 10-04-2009, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldfrt

I know our state has funds from the licensing that go towards unfinished or botched jobs done by people they have given licenses to.
Does Florida have anything similar?

There is a fund, but since the contractor was from Texas, he was not licensed by the state of Florida, and the job was finished, so that would keep them from making a claim against the fund as well.

bwalley · 10-04-2009, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldfrt

There have been incindences where the BI has been held accountable for passing inspections that were never actually done or done haphazzardly.
Probably not a good route to go,since you'd have to work with him again.
But,if permits were pulled,inspections were done,the roofer got a go ahead from the city,they may hold the liability for not being on top of it.
Granted ,the roofer is the douch,but getting a pass from the city is just as much to blame,especially the way Florida restricts it's contractors.

You can't give some smuck from out of state the go ahead without having restrictions.Everyone in Florida has to pass the tests.
Kinda gives the legit contractors a kick in the face .

The Building Department and the Building Inspector will not be held liable in a case like this.

Jeb Bush allowed out of state contractors to come into the state to do work when we had some hurricanes, it was a bad idea and it was a slap in the face to us legitimate contractors who jumped through the hoops to get licensed by the state of Florida.

I knew this kind of crap was going to happen, does anyone really think a storm chaser from acroos the GOM is going to do a good job and then come back to warranty his work?

bwalley · 10-04-2009, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCpresto

4 or so years ago a roofer from Texas was banging out botched up roofs in SE florida after hurricane Wilma. One being a customer of mine's house. 3 years from the date his drywall was destroyed on his exterior walls, and 1/3 of the plywood underneath the shingle was rotted. It appeared that the nails were shot deep, and alot of the plywood wasnt even nailed down.

Once we tracked the roofer down, he agreed to reimburse $250. Basically saying we have nothing on him because his so called "warranty" was good for 3 years. And that the permit was legitamate.

Its obvious that the roof was poorly done. The leaks started well before 3 years. So I guess what Im asking is what legal angle could I take to get the money back?

Are you a licensed Roofer, or a licensed General contractor?

The reason I ask is because unless you are, the court would not recognize your opinion as to the problems with the roof.

The best thing to do is have your client talk to a construction attorney, who will most likely tell them to hire a licensed local roofing contractor to have the roof redone, if the client is worried about the job being done correctly they can hire a General Contractor to oversee the work being done by the licensed roofing contractor.

JCpresto · 10-05-2009, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwalley

Are you a licensed Roofer, or a licensed General contractor?

The reason I ask is because unless you are, the court would not recognize your opinion as to the problems with the roof.

The best thing to do is have your client talk to a construction attorney, who will most likely tell them to hire a licensed local roofing contractor to have the roof redone, if the client is worried about the job being done correctly they can hire a General Contractor to oversee the work being done by the licensed roofing contractor.

No, Im not a GC. Im only licensed to drywall and paint. But I have someone I trust. Whether or not he can help, idk.

It turns out the guy has relocated to Orlando, and for the most part, we havent been able to contact any previous homeowners that have hired him. It seems that the nails were shot deep, ultimatley causing the problems. This could cause an issue.. How could I possibly convince a roofer to lend a hand in going after the BI, when he basically has to see the guy every day?

DOing some research, it seems most of the inspections werent thorough enough after this particular storm.

Its not looking good, and I still havent heard back from the homeowner regarding what his lawyer says. Bah.

oldfrt · 10-05-2009, 07:27 PM

I guess Florida hasn't learned anything from the past about building inspections that weren't done:

In the early 1980's, the answer to these questions were fairly clear. At that time, municipal building departments were held liable for the negligent inspection of residential and commercial construction. Proof of these allegations simply centered around the fact that a municipal building department issued a certificate of occupancy and that building code violations did exist. Plentiful and shocking evidence supported these allegations. For example, a building inspector admitted approving the installation of a roof by simply driving his car by the construction project (and not getting out!). Big name developers reportedly paid off building inspectors to approve construction without inspection. Allegations of laziness further came to light when during normal working hours building department vehicles were found parked at public libraries, bowling alleys and at home. When these problems were first exposed, some degree of house cleaning occurred, but the real problems were never addressed. Specifically, how safe were the buildings that passed inspection while the person designated and entrusted to perform this task was reading a newspaper at the public library?

Maybe Mr.Bush should have considered this also about hurricane Andrew:

It is unfortunate that only in the aftermath of a hurricane will our governmental agencies, builders, developers, architects, engineers and homebuyer's open their eyes to faulty construction practices. These are hard lessons to learn but hopefully, the next decade of building will benefit from this tragedy.

I can understand the BI's being overworked,but doesn't Florida have a law against hiring unlicensed contractors?
If Mr.Bush gave the OK for this,he should be willing to accept the responsibility for the outcome.
After all,hurricanes are like blizzards in the north,have a contingency plan for adding inspectors at these times.Take a few from other counties when needed.
People have to pay for the permits whose purpose is to protect the HO!

bwalley · 10-05-2009, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldfrt

I can understand the BI's being overworked,but doesn't Florida have a law against hiring unlicensed contractors?
If Mr.Bush gave the OK for this,he should be willing to accept the responsibility for the outcome.
After all,hurricanes are like blizzards in the north,have a contingency plan for adding inspectors at these times.Take a few from other counties when needed.
People have to pay for the permits whose purpose is to protect the HO!

Jeb Bush signed an executive order allowing out of state contractors to come into Florida.

The granting of a permit does not guarantee the job will be done correctly, the building department as far as I know cannot be held responsible for bad wormanship.

This job is over 4 years old and a painter is the one who said it was not done correctly, it may be a bad job but I wonder what a licensed roofer has to say about it.