Labor Costs Per Material

fourseasonswa

Yea I'm not trying to get hounded hear I just was wondering how much more people jump up their prices for different materials I have been in business almost a year now and I have never bid presidential roofing yet laid it a lot and I know what I want to charge! 5 nail instead of four plus an extra bundle per square with the pabco and not easy to cut. So back to the question what do you guys tack on to the price compared to a 30 yr architectural

SLSTech

Tree Fiddy

Welcome & may I suggest ducking

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dougger222

Can't answer that since I've never put down Certainteed Presidential or Presidential TL but would suspect an additonal $15-50 per square over LM 30 would be in order. The big question would be is it subbed or right from the home owner? If subbed you know the contractor has an idea and if right from a home owner they may have no idea.

You have to really consider how much longer it takes to install them and consider what it's worth to you. Your competition may charge $50 per square more but they have a lot of overhead while you can charge $25 per square more with minumal overhead and you could come out better.

To be totaly honest I really don't like how the Presidential line looks on roofs as they appear to have a lot of patterns. They appear to be very well built shingles and as you know the installation on the high end line is tough. IMO the Landmark TL looks better with either Mountain Ridge or doubled Accessory Ridge.

You could do what some "contractors" have done to me and simply call them and ask them!!!

fourseasonswa

thanks dougger I was thinking $20 would be okay. slstech thanks for the welcome I have read others getting bashed but i don't think I need to duck. I have a legitimate question I can bid my own work just curious what others are getting away with. I don't want a full price just what people add. This site is for contractors talk right is my question not something contractors would talk about? If people need to bash my question have at it wont hurt my feeling their just wasting their own time.

MJW

Bidding is one thing. Working is another. Do both and then consider yourself a contractor.

Do one yourself, and then figure out what it costs you in time.

Add your location. Welcome.

fourseasonswa

I work every day read the first post "yet laid it a lot" hired my first employee a month ago. I was a one man show for awhile I will work until I cant no more hopefully custom homes though not roofing but too many roofing jobs to pass them up. I'm running a small crew for the rest of my life don't need big money just want to be my own boss and enjoy building things right and the way I want them done. I'm sick of watching other people hack and slap crap together its a joke that people can make a living being a contractor and know barely enough too get the job done worked for too many of them. I want them gone!

MJW

I can't agree with you more.

JTW

Dougger, I agree with you on the "mountainridge" we cannot buy it here in New England, I will be doing a Landmark TL projhect in the early fall and will need to get a hookup somewhere out there in the middle of the country to get them for me. Certainteed will not special order and ship these to New England. It really is a nice H/R product.

As for charging these out, good old fashion time + materials calculation.How much extra of these things is required @ whatever you billable rate is and there is your answer. If you breakdown the cost you charge for a sq. of 4 bundle shingles into cost per bundle, then multiply by 5, you can probably have a basis for starting a calculation.

outlaw

You can double up on the Shadow Ridge for a similar effect.

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dougger222

That's what I do on all Premium and TL roofs. If you put down a 50 year shingle it would not make sense to put down a 30 year ridge. Have done a few Premiums for buildings and have not been able to talk them into putting down two layers of ridge though.

I no longer throw out any Accessory Ridge caps. Now they go in a pile in the basement garage just waiting for there day to be hidden under the ridge to match the Premium or TL shingle. Kick myself in the short though. A couple years ago in a hurry to get ready for a party for my wife tossed about 15 bundles worth of partial Accessories into the dump trailer.

Got a 50sq Shanandoah TL job comming up so home all my spare ridge will be cleared out after than one, hip roof 278.7ft of ridge. Quite a bit of ridge but still a lot less than last Winters tear off 50sq Cumberland TL with 420.6ft of ridge. When doubled 840ft of ridge at 30ft per bundle is 28 bundles, now that's a lot of ridge!!!

BTW, Mountain Ridge is available in my area but the high cost has forced me to double up the ridge.

dougger222

You have the right idea. If your doing custom homes more than likely they are high end and hopefully your builder(s) are paying you what you are worth. Right now in MN I'm try to fight with some builders to keep my 1999 prices. Of course there are very few homes being built but the few that are have been bid very low from the subs. Got a twin home to do for a builder my father and uncle roofed for since 1978 and had to cut my price $600 to get it. It's a shame for me to admit that sort of cut but since the builder gets me a few good insurance roofs per year figure I should keep him happy so he keeps turning me onto the real money in roofing-insurance work.

Of course there are a couple builders who don't ask for bids they just pay on my price list. Those builders have been rewarded with a 10-15% discount just to keep competative. Again both of these builders get me a good amount of insurance work.

I worked solo or with just one grunt for several years and hundreds of new roofs. Made a good living in those years and never had money issues. Then in 2006 the new stuff died out and it started to hail a lot. Now I find myself unable to be on every roof top with the guys and spending more time on the ground with home owners and insurance people.

Wouldn't do anything different though... Been blessed in this trade of known hacks, felons, con men, and theifs. Being a roofer for many years has helped educate my home owners and secure a lot of jobs from the home owners that want to hire the right contractor for there roof replacement. My competition is mainly high pressure college educated salesmen that know next to nothing about installing shingles or equipping the home owners roof with a properly venting roof system.

BTW, there will always be 18 year old kids who know everything!!! These type make wonderful grunts!!!

JTW

I hear ya on doubling up the shadow ridge, but then you do not get the rolled edge like Mountain ridge does? How does the double up compare?

dougger222

Never installed the Mountain Ridge but seen it in person at the Certainteed Roofing Advisory Counsil Meeting this past Spring. The other contractors at the table said it was too expensive. Rumor has it you would have to caugh up around $5 per foot for the stuff. The box is neat as it's designed to open up and sit on the ridge. The local Shakopee plant doesn't make the ridge so it has to be shipped in. Biggest problem I see with it is if you run short you have to wait a while to get more.

CT also has a Contour Ridge which may still be made which is in between the two ridge shingles. Installed it on a Premium roof a couple years ago and wasn't impressed to be honest. The roof was Chestnut and the ridge was Resawn Shake and they didn't look like a perfect match. Since then have doubled up all Accessory ridge caps.

I like the doubled Accessory look a lot. As a matter of fact when I shingled my rental home with Landmark 30's I put down two layers of ridge. Georgetown Gray and with age the shingle looks better, more definition of the colors. Didn't get insurance money but back then I paid around $45 a square, and between the detached garage and house roof it was only 22 squares.

J-Peffer

What do you mean by double accessory look Doug? Like 2 layers of cap? or just shorter exposure?

dougger222

Just two layers put on top of each other with the normal 5 inch exposure to expose the slight shadow look. I brought up the Mountain Ridge and the doubling up of the Accessory Ridge at the council meeting and both the regional CT rep and Mr. Jay Butch thought it was a great idea to double up the ridge on the 50 year roofs. Of course they have to like that idea as it means more product which in turns mean more money for them!

Who knows, perhaps in the next MSA book there will be a caption in there for the idea.

I've been doubling up the ridge for several years now and can think back to the first job I did it on back about 7-8 years ago.

When talking about ridge I told the group that my house had Timberlines and although the shingles themselves were fairly free from hail damage the Timbertex ridge had huge hits up to 3 inches across in some spots. Right away a few of the fellow roofers said they'd seen it before on hailed on roofs and it was because of the gapping and hollow spot in the Timbertex ridge.

BTW, I bought the house with Timberlines and can't wait to get rid of them. Shingle of choice, a simple one, Landmark TL's. Who knows perhaps I'll try something different three layers of ridge!!! It would look nice on the two 18/12 tarrets.

Anybody have any luck with the Timberline cracking deffect claim???

MJW

Had a timberline claim that paid once. They brought out 40 year shingles and shinglemate underlayment. They paid nearly all of the labor and all of the materials. This was on a 6 plex. I can't even remember how many square it was, but there was alot of valleys. They paid a decent price, but nothing to brag about. Each homeowner (6 of them) had to front $1,000 each though.


Why put on 50 year shingles? I would like a new roof every few years from hail damage just like everyone else....wouldn't you?

MJW

Actually we are working on a Landmark claim right now also. Warranty work is OK, but it takes forever to get the claim through.

dougger222

I like the look of the TL line. In addition was told 50% off dollar for dollar it would be the same or less than buying Landmark 30's. Just not excited to get my crew up on the roof anytime soon. With the two tarrets would also think Grand Manor or Centenial Slates would look good. Going to paint the house a gray and blue. The shingles now will look ok with that color combination though.

It takes a lot to damage even a 30 year Landmark roof. Did a roof in early 07 down in Jordan with Burnt Sienna 30 year. The neighbor got a second roof and siding job in two years so the neighbor asked why. After we did the roof they got another hail storm that paid for the roofing and siding to be replaced again. I looked the property over good and found a lot of holes in the vinyl siding, indents in the cedar siding, and dents on the fascia, drip edge, metal turtle vents, but couldn't find one hit on the shingles. The adjuster and I looked at the roof over a year after the loss. Same for a Hunter Green roof in Northfield that had three hail storms on it. The adjuster was told by his boss to pay for the roof though on that one. All those neighbors got two roofs and they really didn't need to pay for a new roof, just repairs. That roof was 5 years old.

Got a few roofs in a town that got hit with 1.75 inch hail yesterday so may drive out there to see if there was any damage. The shingles were Heather Blend and Burnt Sienna so suspect they will have minumal to no damage.

Joe, what type of claim is the Landmark? I know last Summer they had an issue with a run of shingles. I know a roof in Apple Valley that has two spots on two shingles that look a little bad. I didn't do the roof but they are Landmark and are fairly new.

outlaw

When doubling up ridge caps, I like to offset the second one by a quater inch or a little more. It really looks awesome.

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outlaw

Back to topic.......

When installing premium shingles, your labor cost will be more. More time to cut, more time load the roof etc. You should adjust your price accordingly.

The real question is for people that mark-up a percentage of the job or material. Do you use the same percentage or should it drop? This is when using a time based method to estimate jobs comes in handy. For instance, if you are installing Centennail Slate to a 5/12 two sided striaght rancher and you use a % to mark-up, you could price yourself right out of a job. On the other hand, say the job is 12/12, cut to pieces, and your installing the cheapest 3-tab on the market. A % mark-up may make you lose money as this job might be very time consuming and we all know that "time is money". Our expense are so much per day or week or what ever.

Anyway........don't get me started!

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