Ice And Water A Must In Valleys

jburns1969

As a roofing contractor I have found that ice and water is a must in valleys. It has vertually eliminated any call backs. We run in as well on new construction wher you have dormers. Even though we run step flashing it still works well as an extra field of protection.

Ed the Roofer

Welcome to the site.

I agree with you, especially along dormer wals when you have the opportunity to protect vertically against the walls, go ahead and provide the additional protection.

Ed

tinner666

I haven't seen any difference in the call back rates after I started using I&W. Still zero.

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Frank Slate Roof Repairs, Richmond, Va.

RooferJim

It certainly is an exellent roofing practice to use I&W shield, but keep in mind the stuff is not a magic ticket to not use proper roofing & flashing details.

tnt specialty

I agree Tinner666 & RooferJim....

We typically don't use I&W in valleys unless insisted by others....Never wittnessed a problem w/o it.

Ed the Roofer

I agree that the details need to be done correctly.

But, before I included Ice and Water Shield in every valley, and left it as an option which some home owners did not choose, there were some isolated incidences of ice damming back ups and leaks that occurred.

Regardless that the home owner did not make the right choice, it is stil difficult to tell them that they are at fault or actualy that nature is, but that it could have been prevented if they had folowed my advice. That is why I include it in al bids now, and if they want to cheapen the specs, it has to be deleted and signed off by them.

Plus, I make a decent margin by adding on as many useful options as I can.

Ed

RooferJim

We offer way superior specifications than our competitors for good reason.
Although every roofer in there right mind in this part of the world will use I&W in all there vallys. We used to use roll roofing set in mastic back in the day.

PlainPainter

Man as far as I know using bitumen/I&W is code in the valleys and along the gutter lines. I would think you would have to be a serious hack of a roofer not to use the stuff. I am thinking of automatically running two courses on 8/12 and lower pitches automatically - and give it as an option for steeper pitched roofs - as ice damns were particularly bad in my area this winter.

Slyfox

I use I&W on all eaves 8/12 or less and in all valleys but thats not why my valleys and eaves do not leak, they don't leak because i place and fasten the materials properly.
The hacks are the ones who think thier roofs will survive simply because they used the material,
i have seen/repaired valley and eave leaks on roofs with i&w installed.

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tnt specialty

Amen, Slyfox.....

Travis

I have been roofing 14 years and have always used 90lb,,,,0 callbacks on any valleys

Slyfox

Yeah i have used 90# before an also just metal with out anything else under it and done so with out problems.

I'm not trying to down talk i&w shield and i have incorperated into my standard pricing being that it is code to use it here in my area but no matter what materials you use the main thing is to know how to install them properly.

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Grumpy

I&W is a must at all problem areas including at the gutter lines enough to extend past the walls 24", at the valleys at least 18" on both sides (3'), and at all penetrations such as pipes, skylights, walls, chimneys, or anywhere else a metal flashing is to be used.

Installation techniques will be regional. We are considered a snow area, and the stuff is so cheap as compared to a potential call back. Is it working? I've never had a leak in any area where it's been installed. Is that due to the ice shield? I don't know but I am not willing to find out.

I am more concerned with giving a quality roof over a cheap roof. Sometimes just the fact that I am going hog nuts wild with the ice shield is a reason customers have hired us... especially if they have had ice problems in the past. Can you do a good roof without ice shield? Asbolutely! It's just cheap insurance. We are all humans and if you install enough roofs eventually one WILL leak.

2ndGen

"Not" using I&W in the valleys (or around any protrusions, @ ridgeventing line, etc...) is like buying a car "without" airbags today.

It's better to have it and not need it,
than to need it and not have it.

Besides, even if you throw out the ice and water issue,
just the fact that it seals the nails a good 18"+ on each side of the valley is enough to justify using it.

The only place I can't see using it would be in the field of the roof. That to me is suffocating a roof and one will be just asking for a rot/moisture/mold problem.

2ndGen

Besides all of that...laying out a course of I&W along the eave makes for a quicker start-up of the shingling (and that goes with using it in the valleys too).

Once it's down, it makes the rest of the roof work go faster and safer.

tinner666

The 'OP' stated that it's use almost stopped all leaks on roofs he did.

I use it all the time, but as RJ, Sly, TnT, and I stated, it's use hasn't changed the fact that we still don't get leaks. It's great stuff, but it's too often used as a silver bullet.

I approach EVERY job as if I haven't installed ANY underlay.


But, my opinion remains the same. Newer material allows water through it. Maybe the old did too, but the early shingles could be installed on wood and last 20 years without any leaks.

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Frank Slate Roof Repairs, Richmond, Va.

Grumpy

Right, and that's the way it should be, which is why i call the ice shield cheap insurance. Do the roof right, as if there were no saftey net, but if you hapeen to fall off the trapeze, the net is there to catch you! The ice shield is not meant to be a primary water protection, like on many tiles roofs that RELY on the underlayment. if that were the case we'd be using tile underlayment. The ice shield is a secondary barrier, a 1, 2 punch.

2ndGen

For years, cars stopped "without" Anti-Lock Brakes.

Would any of us delete Anti-Lock Brakes from a new car today?

And no piece of 15#/30# felt or 90# roll material will ever seal a nail (unless one lays a layer of roofing cement under it, then you got this whole "mess" to deal with, then...oh never mind!).

Lovvvvve that I&W!

Love Roofing Guns and Aluminum Ladders and Steel Roofing Brackets and Hook Blades and all the other improvements made to the trade! Keep 'em coming!

Grumpy

Again 2nd Gen why rely on it?

Anti Lock Brakes are standard now I think, but that doesn't mean I won't still pump the brakes like you're supposed to in slippery weather. Sure the anti Lock brakes do it for you, but as the driver I have more control.

Why not have air bags in your car, how about if you have a child and you shouldn't have air bags with your child. I have my passenger air bag turned off in my 2 seater truck.

I know this is not what you are saying but this is how it sounds... "Woo Hoo let's do this as quickly as possible the ice shield wills ave us. Forget the proper roofing detail we put down ice shield! " That's the way it sounds

I too love ice shield. All I am saying is I am not going to rely on it as my primary water protection. I am going to install it on every roof, but then install the roof to a manner that it shouldn't leak with our without the ice shield. If for some odd chance it does leak through the shingles/flashings. what ever... the ice shield is a SECONDARY barrier. I'm not going to put nails in my valleys and say "so what' there is ice shield" I'm still going to try and roof it right. Ice shield is not a bad thing but you make it sound like you are only laying down shingles to protect your ice shield.

2ndGen

Why not? It offers far more safety features than regular underlayment, is quicker to install, is a far better product than regular underlayment and offers protections "not" offered by regular underlayment.

Why "not" go with better?

If you could delete the ABS on your truck to save a few bucks, would you?

Do you always carry your child in that seat and not carry adults in that seat?

Air bags save lives. Is your wife's life any less valuable than your child's?

I've solved problems with it and that's good enough for me. It has proven itself to work beyond a doubt. I like it. It's better than regular underlayment. Maybe I could get away with "not" using it, but why would I want to when I can have that extra added protection for an average of $100.00 a job?

It doesn't require me to sacrifice quality on the job and in fact, it raises the level of quality on my job and offers the homeowner extra protection. That's a good thing.

An intalled roof should'nt leak period. Even underlayment is merely a back up at best when a roof is damged due to severe weather. A shingle roof should be able to be layed without any underlayment. If done right, it's waterproof period. That's under "ideal" conditions. Ice Shield is just as much a parachute as is underlayment.

What type of parachute would you prefer?

One made of ripstop nylon or one made of paper?

You don't nail within 18" of the center of the valley at all?

And if you do, isn't it better to use a material that seals itself around those nails as opposed to one that doesn't just in case there arises a condition that causes some severe backup of water and/or ice?

Why doesn't it sound that I'm laying down Ice Shied to offer superior protection over regular underlayment to you?