Hand Nailing

Alan Hughes

I've got to waste bandwidth to get my postcount up to post pics so how about hand nailing?

When you have a job that requires handnailing, do you charge more and if so, how much more?

JustRightCo

I haven't run it to a job that requires us to hand nail than to use nail guns. I think not having those tools, is not the homeowners falt so charging coludnt be fare.

Grumpy

asked and answered 200 times. Familiarize yourself with the search page.

We used to hand nail everything, including shingles. Last year I made the switch to gun nailing, but I did not lower my prices. Therefore I also do not raise my price if a customer insists on hand nails. However if your pricing is based on gun nailing and you are asked to hand nail, we both know it will take longer; so you should raise your price to compensate for your time... It's simple really. More time = more money.

It used to be a huge part of my sales presentation, and I used to blow alot of the gun nailers out of the water just because of it... it's ashamed I can't find more hand nailers.

Cole

I have a crew that loves to hand nail but I also have another crew that loves to gun nail.

They both have the same production rates.

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AaronB.

Sometimes hand nailing is required....i.e. over insulated T&G ceilings/roof decks.

Yeah yeah yeah, i know the mfg codes, but I have a hundred square church I did this way and eight years later there are no ill effects, no blow off, etc.

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Cole

Personally, I like hand nailing better.

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IHI

I think gun nailers in the proper hands have no real benefit over hand nailing in the right situation. When it's 10*F outside and regulator is as low as it can go to operate gun and it's still cracking shingles then hand nailing it is, but for typical spring/summer roofs I see reason gun nailing is any worse than hand nailing-in the hands of a proper operator which goes for ANY tool and ANY trade.

Either way that's what my excellent roofing sub contractors are for and I dont care what they use so long as they continue the great roofs they've instlled for me to date with no headaches/problems.

My buddy about got his azz smacked and almost ended up building his garage alone, he wanted EVERYTHING hand nailed. I refused and drank sodas while watching him slave away and only helped to lift material, simply told him there was no way in hell I was going to stnad there and drive nails by hand and wear my arm out and spend the extra time doing it when I can use the guns I have to get it done in a 1/4 of the time. He had a few others over there that fell victim the first day that participated in the hand nailing sharing hammers and they never showed back up teh next day LOL!! I was there but only for grunting purposes. After he finished and reflected he realized how stupid that was and how much longer it took. Is it any better? It looks no different than the gun built garages I built years before this one.

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Grumpy

Your buddy hand nailed his carpentry framing? If that's the case, I'd just have used screws. LOL. Hand nailing shingles and hand nailing carpentry are apples and oranges. However I do feel there is a distinct difference between guns and hand nailed shingles, however since I've stated my opinions and my reasons for my opinion on this subject 100x I will just once again say "search".

Cole

I didnt read that part, he wanted his garage framing hand nailed, wow, that guy is insane.

What are the advantages?

I dont see any.

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IHI

EVERYTHING hand nailed...framing, roofing, etc...

He's one of those people that hears something no matter what the source and with no common sense will argue what he heard to the death. Some po dunk hack that was over in the shop one night with a freind of ours had stated hand nailing is superior since there is less chance of blowing a nail out of the side of a board-it's stronger since there is less chance of a blow out.

That was all it took even though everytime he'd helped me is always been corded or cordless nailers and only time I use a hammer is to position lumber or driver nails the gun did'nt sink At times drinking my pop talking to him during the build I did feel guilty for not helping, then as I sat and watched reminishing back to 100% hammer days, listening to the other goons that fell for the hand nailing schpeel cry and whine with frequent breaks, i would snicker and take another swig of soda while lounging in his lawn chair LOL!!

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Glasshousebltr

Ah......I have heard that the sheer strength of a standard gun nail doesn't hold up like a true 16penny hand slamer (not a wire slamer).

And that the clip head of the gun nail offers less pull resistance.

However, I don't see much difference in the lines that either would take a freakin tornado to put it up a tree.

Just my input.

Bob

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Bob

A+Carpenter

I cant whip a nail gun but I can keep up with one bag for clip. I like to hand drive sometimes after the winter months to get rid of the carrot cuffer muscles.

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dougger222

I bid on a 4/12 16 sq machine made wood shake job last year and added an extra $500 into the bid for hand nailing machine made shakes and $300 extra for hand nailing #1 grade wood shakes. The homeowner decided to go with the hand nailing of the #1 grade shakes. The job took longer than normal but four meals in two days provided by the homeower and her daugher sure was nice!!!

snapper21

I have and still do hand nail on EVERY roof I lay down. I will still run my side of the roof quicker than the gun that's on the other side. In most cases if the gun wins lunch from me I will find many high nails that will either be stepped on and popped through the shingle, or the sun will melt them through to see the light. This is just my opinion and I know most will fight it but nailing on a truss takes different pressure than nailing between the trusses, or nailing on good plywood versus bouncy ply. I can rest assured that all my nail heads are down before I load the ladder. Proper measures can be taken to make sure your nails are down when using a gun but I found it to be more time consuming putting down the gun, pulling out the hatchet, nailing down the nail, and getting the gun back just to go through the same process repeatedly. Also if I stored coils in my apron to keep me supplied they required recoiling before the gun would run them without jamming. I'm sorry but I will always stay old school and flip nails on every roof I do. Once you learn how to flip nails at speed there is no alternative.

Alan Hughes

Fine with me.

I handnailed about a thousand residential roofs before I switched to guns.

Now after 12yrs of guns, in addition to sore knuckle joints I have carpel tunnel.

I had a call for an estimate for a gov housing project that requires handnailing, probably several hundred squares of double layer tearoff involved. I don't think I'm even going to bid it.

snapper21

That would keep me from standing up straight for a while

MJW

Well my two cents. There is no way possible that anyone can hand nail as fast or even close to a nail gun. If so, it's a pi$$ poor shingler who has the gun. Anyone is lucky to get 1-2 square an hour hand nailing. I put on 4-5 an hour with a gun. That is start to finish, all cutting and good nailing. The guns in the past were nothing near what the guns are today. They put the fasteners in rather well.

As for siding, we hand nail everything. Only way to know if you hit a stud or not.

AaronB.

Ive known some top notch old time shinglers that would hand nail 2-3 an hour on by themselves after felt was installed.

I still cannot do 4-5 an hour without a feeder.

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MJW

2 square an hour should be handled by any roofer. If you figure a standard shingle(not metric), 26 shingles per bundle.
26x3=78 shingles per square
78x2=156 shingles per hour
156/60 minutes=2.6 shingles per minute
Should have 3 shingles on in about 20-30 seconds, plus using metric architecturals you can put less shingles on and less nails per square.
4 square an hour with this math, figures out to be a tad more than 5 shingles per minute. Granted, few can keep this pace for more than a couple hours, but most roofs are done within an hour or so with two shinglers.
I don't use a feeder, but it helps a little if they keep up.

Grumpy

Ditto. When you've hand nailed your whole life, you get good at it. Place, set, sink. My old bosses crew were all hand nailers, some of them never used guns, and they were quick. Like I've said many times before, on a average job, 20 squares, the time saved by using guns is lost by setting up and putting away those guns, and hoses and compressors. Sure if it were a hundred square job or something very large there would be a noticeable time savings.

We go over this time and time again. Why do we keep repeating ourselves?