Hail And Storm Frenzy!

Marsh

It seem more amd more hail storms hit are area, then there are roofer's and some siders that obtain 30-50+ jobs overnite. I have 3 questions.

1) How do they know where the storm hits, meaning excact neighborhood not city?

2) What are they doing to get such a quanity of jobs?

3) How soon after storm are they in the area?

If any one has done this or even knows how it is done?

Travis

Answer 1) HailTrax,,Storm Reports,, These have exact latitude&longitude of reported areas hit, time, size of hail.

Answer 2) They use all sorts of trickery to get people to sign blank contracts.(scam artist at their best)

Answer 3) They are usually there the day of or the very next day(like flies on S*#T)

dougger222

I can answer #3

Had a home owner tell me that there were salesman on his door less than an hour after his house got hit by hail. It just so happened the hail that day hit early on a Sunday evening so the salesmen were more than likely already out bothering people when the reports came in.

Teetorbilt

Dual Doppler Radar is what all of this is based on, just watch The Weather Channel. We have a few different channels here.

Being second or third isn't all that bad, many times the HO will show you the other estimates.

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Jake Stevens

We had a town that got hit with hail last year to which we got about 10 jobs from. After the first call from a home owner, (I didn't know about the storm) people saw my truck out there and kept calling us to give more quotes. We did work with two insurance companies and there are the ones we got the work from. We got no work with Alstate or State Farm, they have there own companies that they work with and even if a home owner call us we couldn't get the work.

MJW

I think insurance companies can refer you to a homeowner, but an insurance company cannot hire you for a homeowners house.

dougger222

You are better off staying away from Allstate. USAA is another one I can't stand. Although they pay off Xactimate they have contractors go out and approve the work. State Farm was great in 06 and 07 but so far this year have been tough to work with on 90% of the claims. Farmers went from back to great and AM FAM is excellent as always.

I have been getting work again from an insurance company I won't mention. Last year they threw me half a dozen jobs of which I got all but one. Got several agents who send work my way as well.

In a cato storm most adjusters won't recommend a contractor. The local adjusters on the other hand will. Most indpendant adjusters are to afraid of losing there job by giving work to a said contractor. The in house adjusters are more likely to give work to a contractor.

Last year got well over $100K from leads from the insurance industry. So far this year my wife has gotten me more leads than that though!

Used to sub from a local insurance restoration company who got $5-7 million per year from the insurance industry.

room2roof

We do a ton of work for hail insurance roofing and siding claims here in north carolina. I think the key to working with insurance companies and adjusters is to be honest and only call in the valid claims.

There a ton of roofers or sales reps I've seen here in the charlotte area firsthand tell people they have damage just looking from the ground.....I'm next door on a roof inspecting looking down watching these morons try to sweet talk and old lady into signing papers when they didnt even inspect.. The lady was sharp as a whip and said I'm not signing anything here and called up to me and asked if I could inspect her roof next.

charlotte nc roofing contractor | remodeling | painting

ssroofpros

Attaboy!!! Do it the way it's suppose to be done!!! Run these stormers out of your hood!
I know you've seen my thread and I've taken control of my area! Just put your time and experience forth and those guys won't stand a chance!!!!
We just got smashed in Atl and it's headed your way man! Be ready to be the first one there!!!
Good luck with all?! Hope you kick some ass!

ssroofpros

The propped wording for the above scenario is called "steering". The INS co do not want any part of the restoration issues their co tractors responsible for. That's why an insurance policy states "you have the right to choose the contractor of your choice"...

Jason-F

Lucky Sob.

larryb

Re: several of the comments on this post...

When done right, storm damage contracting is (should be) the most lucrative work any GC will ever do. The problem is that most contractors don't fully understand the process. For example:

"They use all sorts of trickery to get people to sign blank contracts.(scam artist at their best)"

In reality, there is no trickery involved, only an understanding of the best approach which is to committ the propery owner and the contractor to each other so that it makes sense for the contractor to spend his time making sure the property owner gets fully paid, which is not something insurance companies like to see happen. (Do the research, it's all there)

"They are usually there the day of or the very next day(like flies on S*#T)"

So, millions of dollars worth of gold (large wind and hail storm) falls from the sky. Are you going sit in your office and wait for the phone to ring or are you going to go out and pick up as much of the gold as you can as soon as you can? The "storm chasers" are constantly watching the weather for wind and hail events and when a storm hits, their reps go out enmasse to shovel up as much of the gold as possible. Then, when the local the local guys figure out what happened, they too get into the fray and start placing ad's, flyers, etc., most however, offering free estimates.

Those estimates may be free to the potential customers but they are very costly to the contractor who doesn't understand the process. While the "storm chasers" - even the local ones - are using shovels (contingency agreements) to contract tons of work, the free estimate guys are using spoons. Even the most experienced "storm chasers" though are still leaving money on the ins co tables.

"I have been getting work again from an insurance company I won't mention. Last year they threw me half a dozen jobs of which I got all but one. Got several agents who send work my way as well."

That is acting as a "preferred" contractor - one who is preferred by an insurance company because they agree to do the work for less that what the ins co owes the policy holder/insured.

"I think the key to working with insurance companies and adjusters is to be honest and only call in the valid claims."

"Storm Chasers" rarely call in invalid claims for to do so would be a waste of time and money. Honesty? Always the best policy but, unforturnately, as proven over and over again - thousands of times each year, one that most insurance companies don't adhere to.

"There a ton of roofers or sales reps I've seen here in the charlotte area firsthand tell people they have damage just looking from the ground"

Occassionally, untrained or dishonest SC's as well as local free estimate guys will say there is damage when there is not but generally, after a severe weather event that includes hail, there is no need to "inspect" the roof for damage before having an insured sign a contingency agreement. Even the newly minted "insurance claim specialist" can identify damage within five seconds which usually includes siding, gutter, trim & other damage as well.

After the above event, doing the Sherlock Holmes inspection dance on someones roof is nothing more than showboating as well as unnecessarily risking ones neck. Get the customer signed, then bring out the ladder so you can determine how much damage occured.

"Although they pay off Xactimate they have contractors go out and approve the work."

I think you really meant they use Xactimate...

"By using claims-processing software manufactured by Marshall & Swift/Boeckh and Xactware, the industry has been able to standardize its tactics for low-balling claims and create a "tainted" database of claims settlement figures that the industry uses to further depress estimates for what people need to repair their homes, Foti alleges in the suit. Meanwhile, all of the data is centralized by Xactware's parent company, Insurance Services Office, better known as ISO, allowing companies to collude."

"Once enough companies are on board using a certain product, others are under pressure to follow. Farmers, according to the suit, visited with other leading insurance companies in 1998 and 1999, and when it saw the financial benefits of using the standard claims-processing software, it started using Xactware, too."

"As a practice, insurers, through their adjusting procedures, attempt to impose compliance with these “pricelists” by contractors as a broad group."

The reality is, evidenced by the fact that most contractors (few SC'ers) believe Xactimate is the industry standard, they cheat themselves out of millions of dollars every year on storm damage claims. Most say Xactimate is the standard and contingency agreements are a scam. The truth is, they've got it backwards. It is Xactimate that is the (costly) scam and contingency agreements that allow the contractor doing storm damage work to do the best and most complete job and make sure the insured is fully paid.

Insurers have in fact, through their "attempts to impose compliance with these pricelists by contractors", succeeded in doing so, to the detriment of every contractor who uses Xactimate or similar products...in effect, "pulling the wool over the contractors eyes".

Attempting to impose compliance by contractors is something the EPA, OSHA and departments of labor and industry do. Unfortunately, contractors who want to keep working have to comply. However, the ins industry has no business imposing anything on contractors but when a majority of contractors buy into the belief that Xactimate is the standard and must be used, ins wins and constractors (and the insureds) lose.

Construction companies are generally $500,000 per year companies. P&C insurance, on the other hand, is a multi-billion dollar industry with teams of actuaries, lawyers and claims reps (among others) whose sole job it is to keep costs low. A contractor who lacks insurance industry experience (99%) working insurance claims and going up against those multi-billion dollar companies is no different that a DIY'er assuming they know as much about adding an addition as a pro contractor. And therein lies the problem.

The solution is an easy one, however for those who look hard enough.

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3RSystems, LLC / Independent Construction Contractors of America

larryb

BTW, once enough local contractors in each town learn the process, the out of town/out of state guys won't even bother and will move on to the next town.

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MJW

How does getting more money for the Contractor help the insured? Does that mean you do a better job on the project? I doubt it. Most stormers don't even know the names of their subs, let alone how well they do the work. We aren't selling cans of soda here. This is Contracting. Getting a higher price doesn't necessarily make a you a better Contractor.

I thought no bid contracts and acting as an adjuster was illegal?

Why is there never enough work for one company? Why must they travel the country just to get enough work? For their illegal labor?

I have yet to see any large roofing or siding company that has true employees. Is this because prices are so low? YES!!
All I can see from companies that want higher prices though is to pad their own pockets. I don't see them hiring any labor, except a few part time salesmen and some office people.

One of the stormers up here have their proof of Workers comp on their website. Problem is, the comp is for an office employee. They sub out everything!
Stormers are swindling homeowners because I have seen it and heard it many times from homeowners we have worked for.

larryb

Knowing the process helps the contractor get more money for the insured - as it should be. That, in turn, results ultimately in more money per job for the contractor. No one said getting a higher price makes one a better contractor, BTW.

"I thought no bid contracts and acting as an adjuster was illegal."

You thought wrong. http://www.state.mn.us/mn/externalDo...tin2010-04.pdf The two girlymen (ex-commerce/insurance commissioner Glenn Wilson and ex-DOLI Commissioner Steve Sviggum) behind the bulletin wrote the bulletin as a favor to the insurance and PA lobby knowing they would both be out of office within a few months and would not have to deal with it (or so they thought).

"Why is there never enough work for one company? Why must they travel the country just to get enough work? For their illegal labor?"

They are simply following the money. Illegal labor, sometimes and sometimes not. Are you sure they are all illegal? Are you also sure they are underpaid?

"I have yet to see any large roofing or siding company that has true employees. Is this because prices are so low? YES!!"

When I started in 1971 very few if any GC's hired employees. Instead, the great majority used subs - that's just the way it was and it worked well. Union hype and bureaucrat interference over the years "convinced" alot of contractors that if they didn't have employees and used subs instead, they were somehow sub-par - complete nonsense. You are from MN, know who was behind ICEC? Bet not.

Most subs value their independence from the control of GC's just as much as GC's value their independence from busy body do-gooder bureacrats - like the EPA, OSHA, etc.

I don't know what you pay your guys but it's rare to see a sub being underpaid, at least up here in the northern states. Texas and other southern states, that's another story. Part of the problem is that ins co's underpay their insured's down south worse than they do up north.

"All I can see from companies that want higher prices though is to pad their own pockets. I don't see them hiring any labor, except a few part time salesmen and some office people."

Really? Who then installs the roofs, siding, etc? There's "padding your own pockets" and then there's earning what you are worth for providing a valuable service. Whether "storm chasers" or local retail contracting - there's always going to be a few bad apples - nothing new...

Dont' you want to earn as much legitimate money as you can in as short a time span as possible? Do you know of any builders that don't sub contract various trades?

"Stormers are swindling homeowners because I have seen it and heard it many times from homeowners we have worked for."

If you've worked for homeowners that were "swindeled" by "stormers" how did they have any money left over to pay you? Sure some of them are, but most of them are not. Blanket statements like that are as ridiculous as saying that all contractors are crooks - insulting.

The "we provide WC so that makes us legit and GC's who hire subs not" is a specious, silly and transparent argument - full of holes.

Educate yourself and find out how things really work. Your misperceptions are likely costing you a small fortune in lost business.

Read this...

Sausage makers - Chapter ll, "Keeping Free Enterprise Free"

Notice that the majority of people pushing for employee status over independent contractor status are political hacks tied to unions and socialist/marxist organizations along with an insurance company that sells WC.

"Minnesota State Legislator baffles state by authoring bill to change the name of The Minnesota Twins to The Hennepin County Twins! - then baffles other state legislators by authoring a bill to change long standing internal revenue code ruling that favors independent contractors in order to appease construction unions"

www.iccoa.com/icec.htm

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3RSystems, LLC / Independent Construction Contractors of America

MJW

Who's behind the ICEC? Not sure exactly, but I know it was unions. Imagine that. ha

The point is in bold. Roofing and siding are trades done by tradesmen. This is not the same as building a house.

I'd be willing to bet that most subs are not legal (their country of origin is another topic). I'm talking about properly licensed and insured. If you read the rules carefully, every sub is to supply labor and materials for their "job". If they are roofing, each sub is also supposed to be licensed. It is a licensed trade just like plumbing and electricians. Everyone licensed must supply WC for their employees. I see the loop holes and there are plenty sliding by with them.

Never said we got the job or they got the job. Just the words and tactics used by the salesmen. Most of the phrases had the word "free" in it....

Always am learning. The more I find out about the contracting business the more I see how good and bad it can be. I really hope honesty prevails, but not sure it will, doing things by the book. Most large companies in the exterior restoration business are not playing by the rules. Anyone in the business knows that.


Larry, I enjoy your posts. Just wish there was more useful info in them instead of ripping down Xactimate and telling everyone they don't charge enough because they don't use the newest software. Ever take a look at remodelmax/clearestimates? Those prices are very accurate, right down to paying WC and having real employees. It's tough doing that right now with Stormers taking up all the work along with every contractor that is not building decks or sheetrocking right now. That, along with the economy, it's rough.

Maybe I'll just have to letter up the trucks, get some subs from Clist and wait for the hail. Can't beat em, join em..right..

expertstormrepa

As we can all see.... The storm business is crazy..... Whoever thinks and works harder, gets the most jobs.... Makes the most $$$...... No reason to be mad at the chasers.... Local guys cant possibly clean up a large size storm... also, unless they learn the process, they wont be able to get homeowners paid correctly.... Instead of a full roof, it might be a patch job or half of the roof.....

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Hail damage Hail damage repair roof shingle replacement Pa

MJW

Did your boss tell you that when you went through training. All of that is complete BS. Sorry, had to do it.

expertstormrepa

No problem..... But, I am the boss...... No need to tell anyone, its the truth..... after the regular guys cannt get a damaged roof approved, we are called in..... and usually if its in a neighborhood that has been hit, it has damage....... sorry, you wont understand until you been there and done that.... also, instead of being grumpy about it, get educated on it and go get the work..... There are classes, google haag certification.... its not 100% necessary, but it will help..... I was a local guy pissed off at the storm chasers, until I learned......

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larryb

"Who's behind the ICEC?"

Who was behind the ICEC?... MN Democrat Senator and Carpenters union rep and then Senate Tax Chair Tom Bakk, since disgraced MN Demcocrat Senator and union labor supporter Savteer Chaudhary, MN Representative and Carpenters union rep Michael Nelson, Political director for the Carpenters union Kyle Makarios who wrote; "We were successful in blockading every entrance to the WTO's conference center and stopping the meeting of this organization dedicated to corporate profit--that is, until the police were given the order to clear the streets.", MN Democrat Representative and then House tax chair Ann Lenczewski, Brandon Mill with Hay's Insurance who would be able to sell more WC, and other "suspects".

Their stated reason behind ICEC; to "protect". Their primary reason? To give the unions more control and to raise additional revenue (taxes) for the state. The result; more regtulation and costs to free enterprise contractors who can choose to have W2 employees and pay their WC or hire subs who want to keep their independence and purchase their own WC and other ins.

"The point is in bold. Roofing and siding are trades done by tradesmen. This is not the same as building a house."

In reality, it is. Builder is a GC who can choose to use W2 employees for all of the work (nearly impossible) or hire subs for each trade.

"Never said we got the job or they got the job. Just the words and tactics used by the salesmen. Most of the phrases had the word "free" in it...."

I agree that using the word free as a come on is a deceitful practice used by many that needs to stop and I teach that... Thankfully, the new law prohibits the practice in MN and a few other states which levels the paying field somewhat. That still doesn't stop low ballers from underbidding/underpricing ins repair jobs however.

"Just wish there was more useful info in them instead of ripping down Xactimate and telling everyone they don't charge enough because they don't use the newest software."

As I said before, the useful info is in the book but I don't promote it here. Although I'd like to say more about it, doing so would be frowned upon on this forum. I will say however, that I can go to any town in the USA, teach 100 local contractors how to do storm damage ins repairs the right and honest way and they will make more money than ever and the out of town SC'ers effect will be minimized.

In regards to Xactimate, read through the link below and consider the following: http://www.catadjuster.org/forum/m_27526/tm.htm

Imagine your office manager or accountant was pilfering a % of your profits a little at a time. When you found out how much money you were losing and why, you'd stop using those people. Now, imagine that you were losing money on each ins job because the software you were using falsely and deliberately under priced the work. Would you continue to use that software? Of course not, you would "fire" it and find somethng that favors your company rather than the insurance industry.

Although ISO who is behind Xactimate isn't a cartel, per se, they operate in a similar fashion. see: http://www.consumerfed.org/pdfs/Antitrust_Senate_McCarran_Repeal_Testimony_2007_03 0707.pdf

Once you understand who they really are and whose interests they really serve (and how much $ you lose using their product) you'll rightly drop them as fast as possible and find a program that will serve your interests instead.

"Can't beat em, join em..right.."

Wrong! You can beat them if you learn the process. You'll earn more than you ever have in the past, you'll have less stress and you'll be able to sleep at night knowing that your bills will be paid and you did everything with honesty and integrity.

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