J-Peffer

I feel everyone in my crew has a good work ethic, all the guys work hard on the job. They are always doing somthing, but they lack that "direction".

We are squeezing in a 17sq job, 12:12 pitch, no vallies and 2 skylights.

We got to the job today, it was 9am when we started, we had a 5 man crew.

1 man, organized the equipment and started to setup on the other side of the gable.

3 guys shingled the final 3 square (upper 1/4) off the roof

And I started the tear off on the other side (about 7.5sq).

I tear off pretty fast and I'm kind of like a monkey, I grab the drip edge with my right hand, tear off shovel in my left, and climb up that way along the gable edge.

By 1pm I had everything tore off and scaffolding setup along the entire rake. I helped clean up with one other guy, got all the materials organized and laid out for the 3 other guys. They got down about a square along the bottom and had the first set of jacks up all the way across.

I left at 2 to take the trailer to the dump and setup for the next job.

At 5 (3 hours later) they were short on ice and water, I made it out at 5:45 and they were just over half way done. They got down a square an hour with 3 guys there, and the first set of jacks were all ready up.

They had done 1 skylight in that time (reflashed, it was prefab flashing). They have all the equipment and all the tear off was done. I had all the nails pulled, the job site clean. Honestly everything but shingles. I figured the math it was less than a shingle a minute.

I was super pissed when I saw how little was done. I talked to them calm though, explained that I know they are all working, but they have to learn to work together.

I guess more than a vent than anything, but when I leave, all the sudden progress stops.

copusbuilder

Then they probably weren't working

Think back to when you worked for others...it's just not the same drive.

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CrpntrFrk

You have to remember that you were not there so you don't know exactly what was going on. I am not sticking up for them but sometimes the math does not apply. When things go wrong production slows down! When the boss gets back it might just be easier to take the heat for being slow than to try to explain things went totaly wrong while he was gone cause then it might look like they were making excuses. Once again it very well could be that they were "f*****g the dog" but don't forget to give them a chance to explain if they are usually good help!

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Snow Man

shame on the mess........................

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J-Peffer

I don't think they were standing around, they just lack direction and won't do it unless they are told.

When I got there, they had 1 gun going and 2 guys handling shingles. ONe guy has more experince in roofing than I do, the other has worked with me for 3 years. They are just all very passive, no one will speak up and take charge.

I'm not bossing people around all day when I'm there, some times i don't get my way. I just want them to think "what's the most effective way to do this".

I gave them some **** today.

They ran into no problems, the roof was down to the sheeting, none had to be replaced.. Scaffolding was setup all the way across the rake of the roof, first 3' up done and first jacks were up. I did the math on the way out, and let them know 3 guys put down a shingle ever minute.

Just a nice strait run, no vally, nothing special but 1 skylight, no vent cut, and none installed when I was gone.

BreyerConstruct

Ya gotta put someone in charge, and put the backend on the line.

That being said, I don't have it perfectly figured out, and we see too many of these days ourselves.
I feel for ya man.
~Matt

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Jake Stevens

If you don't have a lead man on the job the wrong man when to the dump.

mdshunk

The guy going to the dump should have been the slowest, dumbest guy on the crew who is licensed to drive. He could bring back some soda too.

rbsremodeling

Gather the guys in a circle no more than arms length away from you. tell them you are not happy and ask them want went wrong. The first one who opens his mouth punch him in the throat. let them know if it goes wrong again. Everyone gets the same treatment

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Mike Finley

Get yourself a pair of binoculors and get on the roof across the street with a lawn chair and a soda and watch what's happening while you're gone. Or try RBS' method, either could work.

#1 is to find out what is really going on, like carpenter freak said, you can't always assume the worst just cause it looks like it.

#2 Always remember that done right slowly is WAY better than done wrong quickly! Can't stress that enough. You're still moving ahead even if it's done right slowly, when it's done wrong quickly you're actually moving backwards.

#3 Try setting goals and getting buy in before you leave. It's a big ass mistake to not get some commitments from your guys as to what they are going to get done. Leaving with a "See you in a while" is completely different then "Okay, we have 5 hours left, where are you going to be in 5 hours on this project Pete?" When Pete says I'll have 3 squares laid, Pete has now made a promise to have 3 squares laid. When you get back and he only has 1 you now have something to talk about. When you get back and he has 4 laid you still have something to talk about. If Pete tells you he will have 2 squares laid and you think he could easily have 5 laid, then now is the time to ask why is he only figuring 2? Maybe he sees or knows something you don't. Or maybe you see or know something that he doesn't? But by setting goals and getting commitments you can talk about it instead of coming back and being in the dark.

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Kaiser

Breyer has it right pay your 3 year guy an extra buck an hour and put him in charge if he can handle it.

This story reminds me of the time I saw a gaggle of geese flying around in a cluster ***** because none of them wanted to lead.

OR

The good old throat bunch works every time.

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mattp

No one is taking charge when you're gone because no one is in the position to do so. Pick the person most qualified to be the lead man and let everyone know he is the man. Right now noone will take charge bc when they do the others will say or think who the fu** does he think he is telling me what to do..

dougger222

I know my guys don't like 12/12's. I know when I'm there working next to them they seem to work harder.

This week we're starting a 60sq 10/12 tear off. Gonna plan to be on site working as much as possible.

My crew is different though, when I mean they worker harder with me around they still work hard when I'm not around. The lead guy has 36 years experiance, second in command has 25 years experiance. Then you have two with a dozen years each.

Right now at 7:40am trying to call the lead man to get him up so we can go finish a tear off so we can start the big one tomorrow.

PA woodbutcher

Agreed. How many skills does it take? A driver's license. I hate the dump anyways...not very often you'll get me there, especially during the summer.

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orange Garrison

That's not an easy fix,but ! the guy's with the most experiance should be leading your crew if they arn't willing to maybe it's time to bring up one of the young go getters that will shake things up .If you depend on the production of your guy's to feed your family there can be no flexibility when it comes to expectations from your crew they are your tools and the tools need to work.be tough with them and set goals every time you have to leave site and once in a while reward them when they acheive them. you have to build a feeling of accountability within the crew or crews. It's your money ,now go get it!

J-Peffer

I was not just running to the dump, I only dump when the job is done and the cleanup is done. I had to pickup materials for the next job, pay for the shingles to be delivered and organize everything to start that job the following morning.

I like to have everything setup, so all we have to do is show up, and get on the roof, everything is where it needs to be. If it was just a trip to the dump, I'd do it after the roof was done.

I just figured, that small of an area, 3 guys, already a good jump on it...it's a easy half day shingle job.

My most experinced guy is the guy that won't tell anyone to setup another gun. He has more experince than I do, but sucks at managing people. My 2nd most experinced guy is very quite, not the type to take charge. I normally have a plan drawn out for every job, meet with the guys at the job and go over the plan then. I cover who is doing what and when so things go smooth. We finish up pretty fast.

I was just dissapointed and did not want to give them grief, but I just could not hold my tounge.

mattp

Your lead guy doesnt have to be the best tradesman or have the most experience either. He does need the following; be able to visualize and look ahead, know all the steps of roofing, be able to speak up and take charge at the same time gain respect of his co-workers. Somebody good probably do this with 5 years experience

Grumpy

3 guys shingling a 3 square?!

First off you have to set one man as the foreman who is incharge when you are gone. Now you have to bonus this person to bring jobs in on budget. Make it in HIS interest to have the jobs complete one time, even early.

I think you should spy on them for a few hours one day down the street maybe in your wife's or friends' car or something. I have one guy, good roofer. I don't often work on the roof but when I hire someone new I like to work a day or two and see if they know everything they said they did during the interview. So he talks talks talks, recites lines from movies, sings songs, you name it. He does not shut up. If you ignore him he works while he does it. If you acknowledge him he stops working to talk. Me, I like to talk, but I can talk and work at the same time. I do however prefer not to talk and work because I know I go faster but I can get it done.


The job you described to me is approximately a 36 man hour job (depending on layers and setup). Divided by 5 men, that's an 8 hour day. Why'd you start at 9am? The day is half over. I find everyone gets tired at the same time every day no matter what time they started. Therefore if you start earlier, you get more done before that tired feeling hits and production slows.

The other thing is set breaks by mile stone. I know law says 15 minute break, 30 minute lunch, 15 minute break. Blah Blah Blah... Typically most roofing companies I know will setup, and tear off, dry-in, then take lunch. They don't stop working or take any breaks until it's all tore off and dry in. Then the cleanup guys clean and the roofers roof.

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Chicago Gutters Chicago Roofing

J-Peffer

It's dark until 9am in Michigan Grumpy! lol.

My lead guy is a **** head. My 2nd lead guy has no balls.

I need a new lead guy is what it comes down too.

Snow Man

Do what our new president intends to do , pay them all the same rate .

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