Farmers Insurance Will Not Send Out A 2nd Adjuster, Unless..

Ed the Roofer

I have an estimate on a home that is 2 things.

Southern Exposure is beat to crap and deteriorated significantly.

Rest of the roof is old and has signs of old hail and some new hail from a recent event.

Farmers is refusing to send out a 2nd Adjuster unless the Home Owner has Proof of Hail Damage.

It seems they have their minds made up, due to the deteriorated side.

It is a 57 square 12/12 with one layer of cedar shingles on skip sheathing and 2 additional layers of asphalt on top.

Just my type that I specialize in. Yummy!!!


Can they deny sending out a 2nd Adjuster? Ridge Walker has that in his Fact and Fiction portion of his site that they can not.

How much does a Public Adjuster cost and would their opinion carry more weight, (Yes), than mine?

Would that avenue be worth exploring in your opinion? The roof quote is around 30 Thousand, not including unknowns so far, so it is worth MY time.

Ed

__________________
Please Stay Tuned For A Very Important Message From Our Sponsor
http://www.rightwayroofingcompany.com/ www.rightwayroofingcompany.com
Roof Estimates, Roof Repairs, Roofers, Roof Leak Help, Elgin, Carpentersville, East Dundee, West Dundee, Sleepy Hollow, Algonquin, South Elgin, Huntley, Lake In The Hills, Illinois

MJW

Does the customer call the agent to request another adjuster?

It doesn't matter how bad the shingles are. If there is hail, there is hail. It is the agent's job to look at these houses and determine if they are insured. I have heard of cases where they require updates to houses in order to insure them. Furnaces are a big one. As long as they don't have anything in their paperwork that says the roof is not insured because of age....it should be replaced by the ins. company if it is truly damaged by hail.

If the customer can't get another adjuster out, maybe see if they can let you call on their behalf.
Proof of hail damage......that is your job to find for them and show an adjuster.

Maybe the people at Cado can give you some advise also.

Did you get any updated estimating software yet?

There is some good info at westurn roofings website. I really don't care for the company because of the people they hire, but on their site, click on media, and listen to the interview at the bottom.

Ed the Roofer

Customer called, but they told her that they wouldn't come out unless someone else had proof. I will be back there on Saturday to take more photos.

I never owned any Estimating software and was inquiring into Xactimate. Darryl had an offer, but I don't see why I would need to pay for his version and ALSO ther entire Years worth of monthly fees. His was for 2 versions and some training DVD's and he just hasn't clearly explained to me why I should not just buy from the Original Entity.

I am not familiar with Westurn Roofing??? Do you have a link?

Thanks.

Ed

__________________
Please Stay Tuned For A Very Important Message From Our Sponsor
http://www.rightwayroofingcompany.com/ www.rightwayroofingcompany.com
Roof Estimates, Roof Repairs, Roofers, Roof Leak Help, Elgin, Carpentersville, East Dundee, West Dundee, Sleepy Hollow, Algonquin, South Elgin, Huntley, Lake In The Hills, Illinois

Hand Bangin

Here is Texas all we do is contact the adjusters supervisor explain the situation and also have the H.O. call and they usually come back out within a day or two.

Ed is it a local adjuster or cat??

Sounds like they are trying to get out of a bunch of work.......9 out of 10 cat guys/gals would eat that claim up.

Harmoney Const

There is a gentleman named Bob Lange from Florida who is a contractor, adjustor you may want to contact him for the perfect answer! Whenever I have questions involving insurance claims I consult with him n hes on the money everytime! Yes you can hire a public adjustor but your going to have to give him a percentage more than likely! However if you go on the roof andtake pictures of the turtle vents or any aluminum products, if the roof does have hail damage they will show it. Send those pix to the desk adjustor. Do you have a signeed "Authorization to Proceed & Direction To Pay Form" signed by the insured? If not the insurance company does not to give you the time of day and usually wont! However if you do have the form signed you can mittigate the claim on their behalf and being a contractor does carry some weight compared to being a homeowner! Also if you want to play the insurance game you have to do whats called Line Item Estimates usually from Exactimate the majority of the time or the adjustors cant interprept it correctly and they get all frazzled! I used to do insurance jobs before and just use my own pricing which typical is on the higher end then the majority of my competitors but I came to learn that I was leaving way too much money on the table because I was not using the Insurance Software and Pricing Guides but not anymore! Insurance jobs can be hell but also very lucrative if you know how to play the game! I believe we are in the same area if you would like I could sign the job up for you with the insurance company and you can do the job! Im sure you could make what you want n I could make a decent profit for doing the tussle with the insurance company!

MJW

Storm chaser at their best. LOL!!!! ^^^^^^^^^^

Just google westurn roofing Ed.

As far as Xactimate. That is their policy. If you have storm claims in your area, it is worth the money. The software is very good and with prices changing so much, the updates pay for themselves.

To be honest, we are kind of out of the ins. stuff. Too many swindlers out there taking our work and hiring illegal cheap workers. Too many guys with a new pickup and a desk, thinking they can make a profit by just writing estimates or handling ins. companies. They are getting smart to this, and I hope the government, IRS, and local building officials nail them to the wall.

It's too bad when a REAL roofer can't land jobs because other desk jockeys know the system and run their business illegally.

Slyfox

I never heard of an insurance company refusing to send people out,
i have had situations, i think with farmers, were they informed the home owner that if there was no storm damage found than they would charge $250.00 for the service.

As far as refusing to send someone, or cover the roof because of age, that won't float long if you and the home owner follow through and push them, like MJW said, the time for them to decide to not cover something is before hand, not after the fact.

__________________

Synacom

I would stay away from professional adjusters and go to an attorney. Insurance companies assume a much more professional demeanor once they are on their way to court.

dougger222

Westurn sweet!

One of my cheap builders used them to save a few bucks on some townhomes a couple years ago. On the closed valley on several spots the valley metal starting popping up. The builder called them 5 times and they never sent anybody out. High rows and low nails all over the place.

Heard of a compliant with Westurn recently. A time was set to inspect the work and to decide what was to be done on a roof. 4 brand new pearl white limo's pulled up and 4 fat dudes in business suits popped out. They came up to the house looked up the roof and said, "Try to sue us we have never lost in court". They hopped in their cars and sped off.

Many years ago my dad subbed to them to do shake roofs since they were so cheap with materials and labor and all. After inspecting a roof he never called them back.

Years ago my dad subbed to a real hack "Mr skip stapler". When the new stuff dried up he went to work as the "expert" repair man for them. Typicaly he would have to replace all the flashings around skylights and chimneys after our friends from the deep south left. After that was done he would clean up the mess that was left from the one day wonder crew. What would you expect from a crew paid $55 per square tear off and put down on a steep roof?

Not going to waste my time on that site, sorry...

dougger222

Swamped with insurance jobs right now. Just starting to get to the 5/25/08 and 5/31/08 claims. Then there are a few from July 08.

Still got one to do from 8/24/06 and last Sunday finished a 8/24/06 claim roof. Good thing State Farm pays on signed contract!

Steep Team

Farmers is refusing to send out a 2nd Adjuster unless the Home Owner has Proof of Hail Damage.

Some Insurance companies require photos of the damage and/or an estimate before they will set the 2nd adjuster appointment. I have never had them refuse completely.
I send them photos and an xactimate estimate and follow up with a phone call in a few days.
I have had insurance companies approve the roof or siding from photos and an estimate alone without a 2nd inspection.
I have also had the first adjuster deny the roof and when the homeowner asked for a 2nd inspection from the insurance company they go directly to engineering.

RidgeWalker

Ed,

Insurance compaines are bound by a Good Faith Covanent to deal honestly and fairly. They are also required under this covanent to explore "ALL" available information, opinions etc to validate a claim made by a policy holder.

Acting in such a manner as to compel the policy holder to get more and more opinions while ignoring an already valid one might be considered acting in bad faith, which violates thier fudiciary covanent with the policy holder.

So I have 1 simple question, has any adjuster from the insurance company phsyically got up on this roof and inspected it for themselves?

If no, then they have not even begun to perform thier duty towards the home owner.

A public adjusters opinion might carry more weight but it depends on how knowlable they are in identifying structural damage and failure analysis. However they are good at understanding the policy language and applying it to a claim, which helps determine coverage.

In my opinion if you "KNOW" for sure this roof is hail damaged I'd call and speak with a claims supervisor. Explain to him/her the situation and that you'd be happy to represent the home owner in arbitration. BUT before they (the insurance company) decides to spend the money for an engineer to find exactly what you've found you strongly encourage them to send out another adjuster to meet with you. This tactic will usually get you the second inspection. You have to come off like your not afraid to meet with an engineer, and that you'd even welcome the opportunity.

Hope this helps Ed.

Ed the Roofer

RidgeWalker,

Very nice and diplomatic wording you just stated there. I will be sure to copy that text and use it when necessary. I still have not gotten past the top of my 2nd story ladder to physically walk the valleys on the dormers and the ridge of this 12/12, so I only have a distant view of what may or may not be hail.

It's raining today, so tomorrow will be my first real opportunity if the roof is dry. I met again with the home owners on Saturday and they tied up too much of my time, where it wound up being to close to dusk to even consider getting up there.

They certainly are ready to proceed with the project, but they want to find a way to shave off about $ 4,000 to $ 6,000 from the cost. If they don't do the garage or the porch, which you can hardly see from ground level, that is do-able.

I am very familiar with all of the Good Faith/Bad Faith conditions and the expectations of fair dealings from a Fiduciary, but it all ties in nicely to what you just stated.

Ed

__________________
Please Stay Tuned For A Very Important Message From Our Sponsor
http://www.rightwayroofingcompany.com/ www.rightwayroofingcompany.com
Roof Estimates, Roof Repairs, Roofers, Roof Leak Help, Elgin, Carpentersville, East Dundee, West Dundee, Sleepy Hollow, Algonquin, South Elgin, Huntley, Lake In The Hills, Illinois

MJW

Just so you know Ed, if it is insurance work and they shave money by not doing something they are paid for, that is considered ins. fraud on their end. It may be on your end also if you know about it. If they are footing the bill themselves, they can do what they want.

Ed the Roofer

No, thats not what I meant.

They are convinced right now, due to the stance that Farmers has taken to not even send out another adjuster, that they will be footing the entire bill by themselves.

Thats why they want to consider decreasing the scope of work.

I would advise them what the intent of the insurance proceeds are for and that they should not get the RCV unless that portion of work is actually done.

If they get anyting, even a token offering, then they will have enough to do the entire project all at once, instead of stringing the porch and garage along for a couple of more years.

Ed

__________________
Please Stay Tuned For A Very Important Message From Our Sponsor
http://www.rightwayroofingcompany.com/ www.rightwayroofingcompany.com
Roof Estimates, Roof Repairs, Roofers, Roof Leak Help, Elgin, Carpentersville, East Dundee, West Dundee, Sleepy Hollow, Algonquin, South Elgin, Huntley, Lake In The Hills, Illinois

William Mear

IF THERE IS A DISPUTE WITH A CLAIM THE INS.CO. WOULD LIKE TO GO TO ARBITRATION BUT THE HOME OWNER HAS THE RIGHT TO INVOKE THE APPRAISAL CLAUSE IN THE DISUTE RESOLUTION SECTION OF THE POLICY. THIS BYPASSES ARBITRATION AND TAKES IT TO A THIRD PARTY APPRAISOR AND WHAT HE SAYS IS FINAL. AS THESE GUYS ARE PAID A % OF WHAT THEY RIGHT UP THE INS.CO. WILL BACK DOWN REAL FAST.

DON'T HIRE AN ATTORNEY, UNLESS THERE IS NO HOPE. THEY WILL COST YOU 40% ATLEAST AND IT WILL COME OUT OF THE CLAIM AMOUNT. mOST POLICIES HAVE A CLAUSE THAT ATT. FEES ARE NOT RECOVERABLE IN CASE OF LITIGATION.

Vince_B

I like RidgeWalkers answer. Good Faith is the leverage for a fair settlement.

My other thought is, why not ask what constitutes satisfactory proof? Why waste a lot of time guessing what they want?

buildpinnacle

Wow. Lots of misinformation on this one. Simply...the insurance company carries the burden of proof...not the HO. The 'appraisal' process is an option the HO or as Harmoney mentioned, an 'authorized' contractor can invoke. I have done it many times and have never lost...even after engineers have written reports that $500,000.00 low slopes had zero hail damage. The process is simple. The HO or building owner hires a dis-interested third part appraiser and so does the carrier. Some carriers will give you Sh#$t about you not being 'disenterested' and will fight you on representing the HO. The two appraisers from both parties get together and collectively agree on a judge. This can be anyone they both agree on from a roofing contractor, engineer, independant adjuster, general contractor, etc. If the two cannot agree on someone collectively, it goes to an actual Judge who pics the appraisal judge from a list.

Here is how the process will work in the field. Generally, what I try to do is get in contact with the other appraiser and see if he/she will meet me on property to see if we can agree prior to retaining the appraisal judge. If he sees it my way...claim over. We agree to a price in the field and its a done deal. This has happened many times. If not, we talk about who we will choose to be the appraisal judge and we contact them once agreed (assuming we do...if not see above) After both parties float a check to the appraisal judge for their fees (they will tell you how much), we set up the meeting of the minds. Usually, the judge will spend time with each party seperately to go over the roof, hear our pitch, etc. while the other party is on the ground and vice versa. Following this, they will generally look at it by themselves while I sparr with the other appraiser in the parking lot. The appraisal is signed, sealed, and over when any two of the three parties agree.

This process is very diplomatic and fair. The key is first off, not having a reputation as a dirtbag insurance scumbag, but a roofer who calls it like he sees it. Second, pick your judges wisely and try to recommend a judge who sees things as you do in the field if possible. I've only had to do this one time on a residential roof as they are mostly no brainers with the most bypassing I'll usually do is climb up the ladder to the claims supervisor or theaten the drawn out appraisal process.

__________________

outlaw

One of the biggest problems that I run into with insurance cos. is that they will often agree to pay for half the roof. Such as the front or the back. How can they be convinced that this is not acceptable?

buildpinnacle

Read the policy and see whether they have a 'matching' clause. I know in Texas, they must replace the entire roof down to the deck. There are some policies that address matching walls, roof, siding, cabinets, etc and exclude it. Mostly mobile home policies.

__________________