Fall Protection

MrRoofer

Everybodys favorite topic right?

Not our subs to be sure.

The code here states either a fall arrest system (ropes and harnesses) or guard rails must be used. Slide guards (ie roofjacks) are NOT an option.

I'm just wondering if anyone has had any luck with any type of guard rail system out there, specifically for sloped roofing.

I somehow doubt there is anything feasible out there. I have seen things that are applicable for new construction, but on re-roofs they don't really work...per se.

Any idears?

__________________
'I'm living on the edge!'

kubie

wow, really? what roof pitch?

mmike032

if you fall your fired before you hit the ground here

Slyfox

So long as we have a 'slider' roof jack with a minimum of a 45 degree angle we can skip being tied in here in my area.

__________________

MrRoofer

Being fired halfway down a fall has been status quo here...until now.

The OHS code here (Occupational Health and Safety - Alberta) in 2006 haha was when the change actually occurred, whereby they omitted the section using roofjacks. The code gave a grace period of up until Oct 2007, so I guess we are a couple years behind .

The job we are doing is for the University here, so there is no getting around it. Doing the average joe's roof in the burbs it is pretty hard to police compliance due to the limited exposure, but at the Uni, OHS makes a living. Not that I tend to disagree. Falling off a roof because you aren't tied off is stupid IMO, and regardless of pitch or experience, it does happen. The other aspect of things for me personally is, if I am not doing due dilligence on my part, including policing our subs, if something happens I am just as liable as anyone, with resulting fines and possible jail time in extreme cases. So from here on out, the guys are either with it, or they are gone. Let me tell you, this business is starting to suck.

The pitch of the roof is 4/12.

Again, all I have been able to come up with is a railing system that wraps from the roof under the soffit and ties into the trusswork of the building. Again, on a reroof that is no good unless you are removing the soffits, fascia and eavestrough.

What really sucks about the whole scenario is dealing with higherups in the safety world among others who feel the same rules must apply to flats as they do slopes. Which of course cannot be the case, but hey, what do I know.

__________________
'I'm living on the edge!'

naptown CR

unless this roof i HUGE what about harnesses, the cost to restore the soffits may make that impractical

If you fall your fired

If you hit the ground your trespassing

2ndGen

For me, I think that the best fall protection system is a perimeter bracket/2x4 stick system.

Anybody using a set up like this?



For me, it looks much safer than a fall arrest set up (where rope is easily tripped over, causes logistical problems and slows down production).



Not only that, when have you ever seen a rope "catch" tear-off debris and "hold" it for you until you got to it to toss it over?

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable."
Ken Hendricks
www.SolutionsRoofing.com

apehangeralfy

2ngGen, do you know who makes those.

I've been trying to come up with a portable hanging fall protection that hooks under the sofit to the wall and has a platform, maybe 2' or so to work on and has rails that meet OSHA compliance. I have found something close to what I am envisioning but nothing exactly, yet. The need is for doing metal roofs where you need to stand below the panel to push it up in place and then hem the bottom edge. Currently we use a Rustgo, ladders and picks, or a telehandler with a steel platform (not legal but it is over-engineered and safe, but the right inspector would catch it).

outlaw

Can't you just set up scaffolding?

__________________
www.clarkroofingandsiding.com

MrRoofer

So those are nailed/screwed/bolted directly into trusswork? Who is the manufacturer? How do you roof around them?

I imagine that setup will cause as much a production slowdown as any rope, frankly. However tripping over ropes are a constant hazard, and snag on every frickin little nail (cedar shingle tear off).

Some of the guys seem to be having much better luck with retractable lanyards, however, there are different guidelines when using those also. Number one they are always up in the air, so more guys on the roof it becomes difficult moving around the roof, and secondly and more importantly from the standpoint of staying on the roof, if you are at roofs edge, the retractable lanyard isn't neccesarily going to stop you from going off the roof (albeit you may stop short of actually falling below the roofline, you will be off the roof). Whereas a manual line grab adjustor is theoretically supposed to keep you from going off the roof at any point, if manually adjusted properly, which is also generally untrue when specifically speaking of anchoring on a hip roof.

With the boom days over, OHS, we are discovering, really have nothing better to do.

__________________
'I'm living on the edge!'

Aggie67

We looked at the permanent anchors that hide under the shingles late last year for a commercial up-blast exhaust fan job (got canceled). Just leave it there when you're done if you don't want to mess with it. They weren't that expensive. We also looked at the removable type, but we didn't want to mess with the repair. I like them better than the cable systems. They're a PIA.

__________________
Follow the day to day life of a professional engineer on Twitter
Contractor
New Jersey Licensed Structural Engineer

English Roofer

Over this side of the pond scaffolding is the norm on any pitchd roof, i have put some postsup before about this, the health and safety over here is **** hot with big fines involved if you are caught not using scaffold for a re-roof or new build.
Its dam expensive but at least i know when pricing for a job everyone else will be using scaff as well, one things for sure its alot quicker to do the job.
Cheers
Dave

__________________
' I can resist anything but temptation' Oscar Wilde

www.drroofing.co.uk

Aframe

http://www.fallprotect.com/guardrails.html


Depending on the material your putting down will determine what type of protection will work best

2ndGen

I "think" they work just like normal roof brackets.
I'm assuming that they are nailed in.

I thought about that too, but I think that they'd go up and tear down way faster than setting up a harness system. Again, they seem to go on like normal roof brackets. Once up, you just slide the sticks through them and I could see myself nailing some plywood sections or possibly construction netting so that it would catch any flyaway debris.

I'm going to get a set-up in a few weeks. I'll come back and report on them.

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable."
Ken Hendricks
www.SolutionsRoofing.com

2ndGen

Permanent mount anchors make all the sense in the world for applications where regular maintenance is an issue. It's very cheap insurance against crews having to temporarily anchor to points on the roof.

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable."
Ken Hendricks
www.SolutionsRoofing.com

2ndGen

Hi Dave.

Would you happen to have a picture of a set up?

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable."
Ken Hendricks
www.SolutionsRoofing.com

MrRoofer

I think scaffolding is an excellent idea personally, for a number of reasons. I don't care what anyone says, it helps take away some of the psychological barrier associated with climbing down to the bottom edge of the roof, enhancing quality and quantity of production (ever seen a guy hangin on to the previously nailed shingle, trying to accurately place the next shingle and nail it all at the same time on a 9/12 with no fall protection?) Secondly you have just incurred a massive job creation program (let's stimulate the economy people) and thirdly and most importantly, it helps prevent people from falling off of the roof. It was some English roofers who put that idea to me some time ago, it would be nice to see North american attitudes embrace the idea, but I don't forsee it happening anytime soon, unfortunately. Like you said English roofer, at least you know the competition there are bidding with scaffolding, not so much the case here. I also understand with here, the logistics are huge to think of doing that, but it's not impossible (it is not uncommon to be doing roofs hundreds of miles from here...transporting scaffolding consistently that far gets pricey).

We are installing shingles, so most if not all of the flat roof systems wouldn't work.

I managed to find the web address of the picture there 2nd Gen, thanks, and had a browse around. I did some quick crunching and from a cost perspective a 20x25 straight gable shed roof would cost @ $1500.00 US to install those type of guardrails (the entire perimeter would need to be railed). That does not include the cost of the dimensional lumber railings. For some of the larger roofs we are doing on this job that cost elevates to around $30,000.00 US to install, again, not including dimensional lumber. We have approximately 30 buildings to do so the total cost works out to be alomst as much as the job was bid. Unfortunately I can guarantee no other bidders allowed for so much as a frayed rope .

Now from a labour cost standpoint, again I would think we are incurring a large cost. Delivery, setup, removal and setup again...I'm not sure how the best method of use on a reroof would be, however if it isn't a two step process, you might think a rope and harness system at the very least would be used to tearoff, start the first few courses, then install railings, which means you still have to have the rope on to install the railings?!, and untill you install your rake shingles, you cannot install the rake railings, and therefore if you are working on a rake without a railing you need a rope ahhhhhhhh!!!

I think at the end of the day being the way things are, it is still simplest to use a rope. Anything that involves setup on the ground is going to cost mucho extra (if you are going around the entire building - be it nets or scaffolding) and railings on the roof don't appear to cost any less.

I had one young greenhorn mutter something about how ropes are just another safety hazard, and while I have to agree with him on some levels, ultimately gravity would learn him otherwise I think. I had to retort, well maybe the danger doesn't lie so much with the rope as it does with it's operator

Thanks for the posts, keep em coming!

__________________
'I'm living on the edge!'

Kgmz

Was looking at this website for info for another thread, and remembered this thread and found this for you.

http://www.industrialladder.com/prod...categoryID=101

2ndGen

Yeah, that's them.

Nice set up.

I've built my own similar set up before I ever saw these with the old wooden brackets where I'd sister on 2X4's and build a railing system to handle the debris from tear-off, but one day, I slipped and stepped back falling into it and it held me fine (surprisingly).

When I saw them in steel, I knew I'd be getting them.

__________________
"I've been up on the roof. I know what those guys go through.
My whole life has been about making that profession respectable."
Ken Hendricks
www.SolutionsRoofing.com

English Roofer

Hi 2nd Gen, here are some photos of a job ive just completed with scaffolding, remember the contractor paid for this scaffolding on this job not me,(i only have to pay when we do re-roof) also im not the only one that benifits from the scaffold, the bricklayers,Carpenters, painters and who ever else needs to get up!
The yellow looking scaffold is a loading bay, there was a fork lift on site so every thing is lifted up
Its expensive as ive said but the job is much quicker and safer.
Cheers
Dave

Attached Thumbnails

     

__________________
' I can resist anything but temptation' Oscar Wilde

www.drroofing.co.uk