Estimating - Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum

Roofer Dave · 09-27-2009, 02:09 PM

Do any of you use estimating programs if do like your oppions on different ones and the ones you like the best. Thanks

Red Adobe · 09-27-2009, 10:02 PM

step roof off, use fingers n toes to figure sq. and rithmatic going rate = bid

Grumpy · 09-28-2009, 09:15 AM

I've looked at many and I ended up building my own in excel. This way it prices exactly the way I want.

PA woodbutcher · 09-28-2009, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roofer Dave

Do any of you use estimating programs if do like your oppions on different ones and the ones you like the best. Thanks

How can you have a program to factor in the PITA factors? Access, material handling, disposal fees/handling? Like Grumpy I would much rather rely on things that I know. Price of materials+approximate labor+ dump fee+how much money I want to make

cms_roofing · 10-01-2009, 10:22 PM

We are using the one that everyone believes and trusts. Insurance companies take it and dont do anything themselves. We currently use xactimate and integra, quick bids I just sketch on paper quickly. All of those are factored in my per square price (dump, access, etc) so why do i need a program to tell me it? Like I said though xactimate does it all

Grumpy · 10-02-2009, 07:19 AM

I do not believe nor trust xactimate. It's WAY WAY WAY toooooooo cheap. Can't work for those prices.

giantfan · 10-02-2009, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grumpy

I've looked at many and I ended up building my own in excel. This way it prices exactly the way I want.

Ditto.... I wouldn't trust anything but my own.

dougger222 · 10-02-2009, 08:27 AM

I use Xactimate and typicaly write walkable roofs from $325-375 a square. Steep roofs range from $375-500 a square. This is of course before O/H and P. Say on a steep roof at $500 a square when you add the 20% you are at $600 a square. How many would turn down a one layer 30 year laminate 8/12 at $600 a square??? A few months ago got to enjoy OH/P on a 35 sq 7/12 one layer gable job. Finaly payment from insurance was just over $20K. The adjuster bought the roof and 15 windows. Since the lead was from a 73 year old general contractor friend of mine decided I better give him the other work! The adjuster wrote the initial claim at $30K. After negotiating about the actual cost of new windows and since the original vinyl siding was very old and brittle was able to get them to pay for new siding as well. To top things off they decided to buy new tin for the air plane hanger roof on the home owners land (92sq's). Total claim came in at $125K.

The key with Xactimate is to know how to use it. With over 1.3 million line items you really have to know what your doing when writing estimates.

In my area Integra will kick out prices much lower than Xactimate or how some adjusters call it "xaggerate".

For bids that are not insurance I do the old fashion way, squares off, waste factor, ridge, starters to get my total squares.

Never heard of a general or roofing contractor in MN who charges more than an accurate estimate with Xactimate. The only roofs that Xactimate is low on is shakes and flat. Another thing they are off on is window replacement and pressure washing/staining. Of course with an estimate outside of X for windows from a window company they will pay it, same as painting.

Keep in mind most adjusters who use Xactimate are thousands less then me. For example last year one adjuster wrote a roof in X for $9,200 and over the phone got them to pay $15,500 (w/X). You not only have to learn how to use Xactimate but to get the big bucks you also have to learn how to negotiate with adjusters.

Have done exterior claims already that went from $5K to $50K. A friend of mine worked one from $46K to $174K. Of course the adjusters missed A LOT of stuff!!!

The other day met with a home owner for an out of pocket roof replacement. She showed me three other bids and two of them were written in a format that looked nice. Rather than type all the information in it had lines for all the different things. All you have to do is check the box next to what they want. Of course this would only work for non insurance work.

cms_roofing · 10-02-2009, 10:55 AM

Exactly...
If you think xactimate is way too cheap you just don't know how to use the product thoroughly, haven't attended any classes, or just using the demo.

$375/square????
Ok hire me,. I will basically be your only needed man, with 8 crews, supervisors and all I will take that amount.
Actually at $375/sq. you should be able to pay your laborers around $120-150/sq, so I will take that in a heart beat, advertise you and everything. Thats crazy high imo but if I could get it I would take it

rc-construction · 10-02-2009, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grumpy

I've looked at many and I ended up building my own in excel. This way it prices exactly the way I want.

Thats what I did too.

dougger222 · 10-03-2009, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cms_roofing

Exactly...
If you think xactimate is way too cheap you just don't know how to use the product thoroughly, haven't attended any classes, or just using the demo.

$375/square????
Ok hire me,. I will basically be your only needed man, with 8 crews, supervisors and all I will take that amount.
Actually at $375/sq. you should be able to pay your laborers around $120-150/sq, so I will take that in a heart beat, advertise you and everything. Thats crazy high imo but if I could get it I would take it

$375 a square is a lot for your area I take it? They say Minnesota pays about the highest for insurance roofing. I know WI next door pays much lower and if you get into Southern MN they pay a lot less too. MN has some of the highest insurance and taxes too. It's a big pro wellfare state.

My crew is paid legally (my family) at an average of $75 per square. Keep in mind I work on 3/4 of the roofs with the crew.

Most roofing companies in MN try to get the insurance to pay as much as possible then try to find the subs who will work for as little as possible. At least I try for top dollar but pay for quality materials and quality craftsman to install those materials.

I don't sub much work other than new stuff but when I sub for tear offs I try to get $150 a square labor.

If $375 a square gets you excited I won't talk about the $500 per square roofs anymore than!!!

BamBamm5144 · 10-04-2009, 08:34 AM

WI is much lower for insurance work. Truthfully, I find it to be a P.I.T.A to deal with. What they want to pay compared to what it actually costs is surprising. I do see guys doing it for whatever insurance pays and I find that to be unbelieveable. I estimated around 17,000 for a 38 sq, 2 story, 9/10 pitch with 110 feet valley 4 dormers and using I+W and everything else youd expect for a quality job. Insurance came in at 8,600. After a month or two of going over it with them I got them up only to 9,700ish. After dealing with all that the homeowner calls me to say he found someone else who can do it for 8300 and he went with them. Like I say to most people like that,

you but you can call me to fix it when they are no longer around.

cms_roofing · 10-04-2009, 05:11 PM

Look guys you got roofs to do and want legal, un-comparable service?
I have 30 guys, be there MONDAY! Will take $75-95/sq. all day for my guys, 1 layer (no pitch restrictions) you just have all materials ready.
Dump trailers and all!

MN roofing license requirements are nothing hardly either I have heard. Guess I know what I am doing over the next 120 days of down time ( have a large job going and just going to relax while they finish)

$250/sq is most we need. I have to say though $75/sq is CHEAP if you are charging $350-500/sq. PLAIN AND SIMPLE

dougger222 · 10-05-2009, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamBamm5144

WI is much lower for insurance work. Truthfully, I find it to be a P.I.T.A to deal with. What they want to pay compared to what it actually costs is surprising. I do see guys doing it for whatever insurance pays and I find that to be unbelieveable. I estimated around 17,000 for a 38 sq, 2 story, 9/10 pitch with 110 feet valley 4 dormers and using I+W and everything else youd expect for a quality job. Insurance came in at 8,600. After a month or two of going over it with them I got them up only to 9,700ish. After dealing with all that the homeowner calls me to say he found someone else who can do it for 8300 and he went with them. Like I say to most people like that,

you but you can call me to fix it when they are no longer around.

I did a roof a couple weeks ago just across the border in WI. All the neighbors got roofs from the two storms last year and this one got denied. Met with the second adjuster and guess what it got denied again. The adjuster tried telling me the hail was about 6 years old. Determined to get the insured what they had due since of course there was some hail damage had an engineer come out. He said yes some damage but not a lot. The insured's x husband was a very well known lawyer in MN so she threatened them with the fact and they finally gave in and gave her the new roof. They ended up paying around $310 a square with Xactimate and if the roof was in the Twin Cities it would have been $400 a square easy.

Got another one to do out there and it's not paying much better. WI insurance law states they don't owe to match roofing or siding. About a year ago after a hail storm in MO decided to download a price list to see what they pay and the prices were right in there with WI which is strange since it costs a lot more to live and run a business in WI. There property taxes for example are stupid expensive. My wife and I looked at a newer house not far into WI from MN and the property tax on a $400K (slashed down to $275K for a short sale) was $12K a year!!! $1K a month for property tax and it's not even close to water??? We quickly stopped looking for homes in WI. We ended up with twice the house in MN and half the property tax.

To make you feel better the price list for the part of WI I wrote bids for was still higher than the Mankato, MN price list. It's not really true MN pays top insurance roofing dollars in the whole state, just the Twin Cities, Rochester, and Duluth. All the cities in between the price goes down quite a bit.

BTW, $250-300 a square is this years going rate for non insurance work from the bids I've seen from licensed roofing contractors. Of course they all bid with $50 per square Mexican labor and buy the cheapest laminates on sale from week to week.

BamBamm5144 · 10-05-2009, 08:22 AM

Dougger - Please do not get me started about property taxes. I live in a very modest home but its in the highest property taxed county in the state. It is quite expensive to do business here but our govenor just wants to keep raising them. I am going up to the Minneapolis area next week to work on a house for a friend. I might consider house looking while I am up there. JK.

dougger222 · 10-07-2009, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BamBamm5144

Dougger - Please do not get me started about property taxes. I live in a very modest home but its in the highest property taxed county in the state. It is quite expensive to do business here but our govenor just wants to keep raising them. I am going up to the Minneapolis area next week to work on a house for a friend. I might consider house looking while I am up there. JK.

BamBamm,

If it makes you feel a tab better I also live in the highest property taxed county in Minnesota. 4 acres up here is about $6K a year. Many neighbors pay will over $10K a year though. I had 14 acres, remodeled 2K sq ft home with 4K sq ft of heated insulated pole buildngs in Southern MN that was $700 a year for property tax. I guess if the house was a mile North it would have been over double. My Uncle has 22 acres in the Ozarks of MO and his property tax with a cabin is $7 a year!!!

smeagol · 10-07-2009, 10:25 PM

We charge 200 with always Landmarks and still lose most bids. We were roofing a house in Maple Grove and an old guy walking by stopped and chatted us up because he could'nt believe we were all white

BamBamm5144 · 10-10-2009, 11:16 AM

Douggar thats it, Im moving, I have less than half an acre - my property tax is nearly 5K. Next County over, 3 acres is about 3500 a year. Darn Government.

dvon104 · 10-10-2009, 11:31 AM

Can you do an accurate tear off and re-roof estimate from the ground ? I had my roof replaced and one of the roofers never climbed on the roof ...he measured the length and width of my home and used a "pitch card" to get the pitch and gave me a price .....if my roof was a straight gable I would say sure ...but I have 5 gables and I think 8 or 9 valleys ?

Just curious..

Grumpy · 10-13-2009, 09:57 AM

I'm paying about $5k tax for less than 1/4 acre. Life in the city...

I'd prefer live in a rural area with 4 or 5 acres, but anything like that withina reasonable distance of civilization is WAY WAY outside what I can afford. I'd have to go to the farm lands, but there's no work, and I hate driving 45 minutes to and from work. I hate driving in general, people are stupid.